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MagicSanta
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I'm watching the Sara Conner Chronicles, the Terminator TV series. I've only seen the first two movies once so tolerate my lack of name knowledge. In the movies that fellow comes back to protect Sara because she is going to have a son named John who goes on to lead some resistance in the future and he sends the guy back to protect his mother. The guy knocks up Sara and low and behold he is the father of John. Okay, here is my problem. If the fellow from the future is the father of John and was sent back to protect Sara, who he knocked up, how is it he knocked her up the first time so that John would exist and go through the circumstances to become the resistance leader and send the guy back to protect his mother? There had to be a first time but it is implied that John came before conception. I know some of you know the answer, I'm just wondering.....
abc
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Cyclical view of time as opposed to Linear view of time.
Very confusing to people like me.
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2008-03-03 23:52, MagicSanta wrote:
I'm watching the Sara Conner Chronicles, the Terminator TV series. I've only seen the first two movies once so tolerate my lack of name knowledge. In the movies that fellow comes back to protect Sara because she is going to have a son named John who goes on to lead some resistance in the future and he sends the guy back to protect his mother. The guy knocks up Sara and low and behold he is the father of John. Okay, here is my problem. If the fellow from the future is the father of John and was sent back to protect Sara, who he knocked up, how is it he knocked her up the first time so that John would exist and go through the circumstances to become the resistance leader and send the guy back to protect his mother? There had to be a first time but it is implied that John came before conception. I know some of you know the answer, I'm just wondering.....


Is a common movie time paradox... the ol' chicken or the egg first thing.

Best,

Tim Smile

Day 3
RS1963
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I have no clue

Randy

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MagicSanta
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Remember that movie from around 79 or 80 where the carrier goes back to the days prior to Pearl Harbor being attacked? They did it right. They showed the carrier going back the first time, the one guy was left, and he showes up having aged from that point to the modern age while his younger self was just starting the beginning of the forty year cycle. He didn't exist as his young self in the future it was like a plane doing a loop, he will forever be in that loop until the carrier returns and then the old guy is himself without worrying about encountering his young self who is growing up during the period the guy is aging. I wonder why they don't show that movie? Trivia, they used real Navy guys when filming which was a thrill for all of us in the USN at the time.
The Drake
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Here is one for ya....

In back to the future.... Marty goes back in time and changes his future. He does. When he returns he witnesses himself go back in time in the Delorean.

However... the Marty that left the second time... was a different Marty who enjoyed a better lifestyle than the first Marty. When he went back in time he'd have a different way of seeing things and would behave differently. Whatever he did would alter the newly revised future that the first Marty altered and things would be different yet again.

In theory its an infinite loop. One Marty returns early to warn Doc Easton and watches another Marty going back in time to alter things once again.

Will it ever end????

Best,

Tim

Day 4
Stanyon
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Quote:

On 2008-03-04 00:34, MagicSanta wrote:
Remember that movie from around 79 or 80 where the carrier goes back to the days prior to Pearl Harbor being attacked?




"Final Countdown"
Stanyon

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I thought it was "The Philadelphia Experiment".
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Quote:
On 2008-03-03 23:52, MagicSanta wrote:
I'm watching the Sara Conner Chronicles, the Terminator TV series....how is it he knocked her up the first time so that John would exist and go through the circumstances to become the resistance leader and send the guy back to protect his mother? There had to be a first time but it is implied that John came before conception. I know some of you know the answer, I'm just wondering.....


Have a look in Robert Heinlien's short story "All you Zombies" - it's all explained there.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
ClintonMagus
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I think that happpened to me once, but I'm not sure, because I might not really be here yet... sort of... maybe...
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
JRob
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Actually I kind of like the latest explanation of the nature of time from Doctor Who, that time is just this "big mass of squiggly-wiggly, wibbly-wobbly time-wimey...stuff" Guess that's Gallifreyan technical jargon though.
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Stanyon
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Quote:
On 2008-03-04 05:28, stoneunhinged wrote:
I thought it was "The Philadelphia Experiment".


If memory serves me, "The Philadelphia Experiment" was about the WWII Navy experimenting with making ships invisible, subsequently creating an accidental dimensional crack which transported a couple of sailors forward in time.

Cheers! Smile
Stanyon

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MagicSanta...find a copy of the book "Final Countdown"...it's a crackerjack! Especially when the dog fight occurs between the modern Navy jets and the old Mitsubishi Zeros. Also your brain will come up with the better special effects needed that the film didn't have a budget for. Good movie...excellent book...winner winner winner!

If I remember correctly the book was written and ENHANCED from the original screenplay. I would love to see this remade with todays tech departments.
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stoneunhinged
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Well, your memory serves.

Obviously I can't keep all those stories about the Navy and time travel separate.

Jeff
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I watched the first episode other night. :S Not sure if I like it. Not as good as I thought it would be. I want dexter, 24 and more back on!
The Drake
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On 2008-03-04 19:02, Rupert Bair wrote:
I watched the first episode other night. :S Not sure if I like it. Not as good as I thought it would be. I want dexter, 24 and more back on!


I watched the first few. It looked promising but got repetitive real quick. I'm hoping for #4 in the theaters. I'm one of the few that liked the ending of the last one and how it was the quiet before the storm.

Best,

Tim

Day 4
Mark Williams
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Quote:
On 2008-03-03 23:52, MagicSanta wrote:
I'm watching the Sara Conner Chronicles, the Terminator TV series. I've only seen the first two movies once so tolerate my lack of name knowledge. In the movies that fellow comes back to protect Sara because she is going to have a son named John who goes on to lead some resistance in the future and he sends the guy back to protect his mother. The guy knocks up Sara and low and behold he is the father of John. Okay, here is my problem. If the fellow from the future is the father of John and was sent back to protect Sara, who he knocked up, how is it he knocked her up the first time so that John would exist and go through the circumstances to become the resistance leader and send the guy back to protect his mother? There had to be a first time but it is implied that John came before conception. I know some of you know the answer, I'm just wondering.....


...So, are you saying that the guy that comes back through time, does so just to knock up Sara Conner...because he knows he can?
"Once is Magic!! Twice is an Education!!"
MagicSanta
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Holy smoke Mark just brought up something I never thought of.... John may have known that the guy was going to knock up his mother so that is why he sent him back so he was basically pimpin' his mom out!
Dustin Baker
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This is interesting:

You built a time machine so you could go back in time to kill Hitler while he's still young. You go back, you kill Hitler.

Now, Hitler is dead - WWII never happened - you had no reason to build a time machine - you never did - you never went back in time - you never killed Hitler - Hitler lived - WWII occurred - you where born and built a time machine to kill Hitler and prevent WWII - and we repeat.


To the original issue:
Since John sent the guy back in time, the whole thing falls apart. Here's why:
Since John sets up the events that allow for his own birth, he would need to exist independently of his birth. If John lived in the future, he would have needed to be born in the past - if he was born in the past, then he never needed to send his father back in time (since he had already been born).

The cardinal rule of time travel is that it's impossible to do anything that has an effect on your own existence. Simply: You aren't capable of killing your father before you're born - these limitations on free will are largely why I doubt time travel will ever occur since it requires contradiction by nature.

Interesting note: If I went back in time and killed Hitler, I would cease to exist. My grandparents met as a direct result of WWII, so killing Hitler would prevent them from meeting - hence erasing me from history.


Interesting stuff.


Day 5
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ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2008-03-04 23:43, MagicSanta wrote:
Holy smoke Mark just brought up something I never thought of.... John may have known that the guy was going to knock up his mother so that is why he sent him back so he was basically pimpin' his mom out!


In the book for Terminator II, after he sends the guy back, John says to someone nearby; "He's going to be my father, then he's going to die." It's a sad moment.
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
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