The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » So much nonsense! (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9 [Next]
Louis LaLaurie
View Profile
New user
New York, NY
79 Posts

Profile of Louis LaLaurie
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 01:08, sinful lynne wrote:
Well, well, well. You men certainly know how to bicker about nonsense. Some of you certainly have no humor. I think James is a very funny man indeed. I bet he is a good magician. Kimmo, I want to learnt ventriloquism. Where should I turn for help?


Lynne


Bob Rumba has a nice starter DVD, I think. Stop by Magic Inc. and ask Gabe (Does he still work there, yes?) for the Rumba DVD.
I try to help what I can.
Louis
Tom Riddle
View Profile
Special user
Chelsea, UK
507 Posts

Profile of Tom Riddle
Kimmo..that was fantastic! It actually is the very essence of what this thread set out to talk about. I have two areas of my den. One has the dealers props, some old, and some, I will admit, new. I also have several boxes of what I call junk. The junk is stuff I have picked up over the past 40 years from toy shops, car boot sales, thrift stores etc. I always thought they could have some magical purpose, but I never knew what. I will dust them off, and allow them to surround me for several hours. I will allow the little grey cells to work, and get creative. Seeing that video is inspiring, and makes me realise that truly great performance can start with very cheap and limited resources. It will be a story of rags to riches. It will be a story that is proof you do not have to spend your money purchasing the latest and greatest. Truly great art comes from inside you, and the props needed are already there.....right in front of your nose.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"

Thomas Williamson Riddle III
Chelsea, UK
Billy Whizz
View Profile
Special user
Plymouth, UK
576 Posts

Profile of Billy Whizz
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 18:44, kimmo wrote:
Great post Billy!

Tom and Lynne - lip control is probably the least important skill of all. Character, manipulation and script are far more important. Go to the following site and click on the VIDEO button. This guy is FANTASTIC. He is not a ventriloquist and the puppet looks like he found it in a skip (dumpster), but that all ADDS to the charm:

http://chuckytheduck.com/

I'd be interested if anyone truly believes this act would be better if he replaced Chucky with an animatronic puppet?

(Thanks to Tom (TACROWL) for the above link)


That guys is brilliant, his puppet movement is first class. Had me laughing my socks off.
sinful lynne
View Profile
New user
chicago, illinois
15 Posts

Profile of sinful lynne
I might be at Kidabra in August. Do they have lectures there on Ventriloquism? I have been reading about a female ventriloquist called Terry Rogers from England. Does anybody know her?
The Great Smartini
View Profile
Inner circle
2280 Posts

Profile of The Great Smartini
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 22:11, Billy Whizz wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 18:44, kimmo wrote:
Great post Billy!

Tom and Lynne - lip control is probably the least important skill of all. Character, manipulation and script are far more important. Go to the following site and click on the VIDEO button. This guy is FANTASTIC. He is not a ventriloquist and the puppet looks like he found it in a skip (dumpster), but that all ADDS to the charm:

http://chuckytheduck.com/

I'd be interested if anyone truly believes this act would be better if he replaced Chucky with an animatronic puppet?

(Thanks to Tom (TACROWL) for the above link)


That guys is brilliant, his puppet movement is first class. Had me laughing my socks off.


I watched the clip and this guy is simply a great entertainer. He couldn't use an animated one with his approach because part of his joke is that he's not a vent and his puppet reminds of this. The animation that he produces with this puppet is something that couldn't be replicated by animatronics. This truly is a case of a brilliant routine that probably cost pennies but was mastered over an extended period of time. I've also seen great puppet routines from Ken Scott using an Axtell Gator puppet and as well Terry Herbert doing his wonderful Monty the (naughty) Monkey. My two kids just loved watching these two masters at work. Given all this I'm reminded of Kimmo's previous suggestion on this thread to pick up a regular puppet and then possibly (if its even still needed) add an animatronic puppet.

I've also printed out and read the article on The Great Zucchini and it appears that he truly is performing with nothing as far as props go. Given all of the problems he's created for himself with taxes, unpaid parking fines, an addiction to gambling I'd be interested to see how long he keeps this up. Hopefully he gains control of other parts of his life beyond his magic daybook. He seems to literally break almost every rule possible: giving your booker a hard time, not shaving or looking professional for a show, using old and broken props. I wonder how many of us would be willing to try showing up at our next gig doing any of these things. Still, he's quite a character and the bottom line is that the kids love him doing silly things. I know lots of educators who do this on a daily basis and the students just eat it up.

I guess it begs the question what does one want from their magic? Where do you like to perform and what kind of magic do you want to do. I see the Great Z as more of a magic clown and there isn't anything wrong this. Some might that its not even magical given that the reporter was able to identify the methodology behind all/most of his routines. How magical is a magician who doesn't fool people and has his tricks explained in a major newspaper? I know he's there to entertain the kids but it would be nice if some of his routines were more magical...wouldn't it?

If its just money then go out and do whatever it takes. His type of magic is something that wouldn't work for me because of the type of magic that I like to do. Still, he reinforces the point that many here have tried to make and that is you don't always need big fancy/expensive/modern props. I remember attending a Slydini lecture in Seattle and being enthralled by his magic routine the flight of the paper balls. Doesn't get more minimalist than that.

jeff
Mark Andrews
View Profile
New user
Coventry in the UK
31 Posts

Profile of Mark Andrews
Quote:
On 2008-03-11 01:18, sinful lynne wrote:
I might be at Kidabra in August. Do they have lectures there on Ventriloquism? I have been reading about a female ventriloquist called Terry Rogers from England. Does anybody know her?


I never knew Terri perosnally, she died in 1999, I have two friends who knew her well, one who has her vent dummy Shorty. There used to be a very short clip of Terri and Shorty on Youtube.
kimmo
View Profile
Inner circle
Sheffield
1193 Posts

Profile of kimmo
Quote:
On 2008-03-11 07:35, Mark Andrews wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-11 01:18, sinful lynne wrote:
I might be at Kidabra in August. Do they have lectures there on Ventriloquism? I have been reading about a female ventriloquist called Terry Rogers from England. Does anybody know her?


I never knew Terri perosnally, she died in 1999, I have two friends who knew her well, one who has her vent dummy Shorty. There used to be a very short clip of Terri and Shorty on Youtube.


Here's a little clip of her paying tribute to Malcolm Hardee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwoWugw8X_c

What a GREAT ventriloquist - the difference between hers and shorty's personalities was fantastic!
VISIT MY ONLINE STORE!: www.kimmomagicshop.com
NEW LECTURE NOTES - SHOW US YOUR TRIX NOW AVAILABLE AS AN INSTANT DIGITAL DOWNLOAD!

Kimmo DVD available Now!
Watch the promo here!
Order your copy NOW! CLICK HERE!

ENTERTAINER,MAGICIAN AND VENTRILOQUIST'S BLOG - DON'T READ THIS...
Tony James
View Profile
Inner circle
Cheshire UK
1398 Posts

Profile of Tony James
Terri Rogers could work a tough stag show and use some rough but very clever material and through Shorty she would have that audience hanging on his every word.

Because it all came through Shorty she remained above it all and despite the rudeness and roughness she wasn't affected by it. It was nothing to do with her. A male vent would never have got away with it.

Also, and I know I am not the only one to have noticed this, a lot of audiences looked at her and found something familiar about her. She had the appearance of a Mrs or Miss Everywoman. Mature but not old and a bit like either some relative or someone who lived in your vicinity.

She was brilliant but I'm not aware of any dvd material from her club act.
Tony James

Still A Child At Heart
chris mcbrien
View Profile
Inner circle
Chicago
1235 Posts

Profile of chris mcbrien
That was a wonderful clip, John!
So, Lynne, have you been sold on going to Kidabra as of yet? I know many go to this event. What do you hope to get out of it? Any performers in particular you're looking forward to???
Best of Luck in Your Work,
Chris
calamari
View Profile
Elite user
The San Francisco Bay Area
429 Posts

Profile of calamari
Quote:
On 2008-03-08 18:03, chris mcbrien wrote:
I don't always agree with Calamari, but he's right,


You may not always agree with me but I am always right... LOL
"I came, I saw, SHE conquered." (The original Latin seems to have been garbled.)
John Bowlin
View Profile
Special user
Maryland
827 Posts

Profile of John Bowlin
Thanks for sharing those clips Kimmo, great stuff. That Chuckytheduck act is FANTASTIC and very inspirational. I've been working vent into my act for the past year now and I have so much respect for how much work it takes to really make it work. You are so right about it not being all about the vent skills, it's about giving your animated character it's own personality that emotionally or comedically engages the audience.

The first example of vent that really inspired me to incorporate it was the first DVD of Wayne Dobson performing with two sponge balls. The guy brought the house the house down for 7 minutes with two sponge balls, two spectators and a little bit of vent. I have done this type thing at my kid shows with great success, giving the kid spectator a manly voice. An example is when I bring up the volunteer kid I ask him how old he is. He says "5" in my gruff vent voice(him talking into dead mic). I tell him he seems much older and he says "I didn't shave today". The kids and parents usually roll. This works great with a kid that is a little bit shy because he really didn't want to talk anyway and suddenly he is the star.

You can do this sort of thing with voice tracks too as Kerry Pollack has often done in his act. There are too many magicians that feel their wonderful magic should be more than enough to entertain any audience but it is my belief that a good mix of comedy and/or character development are an integrel part of any successful show. Look at almost any great magician/entertainer out there and it is their CHARACTER above all else that is the real seller.

Very few of us are so naturally charming or funny that we can go out on stage as ourselves and the audience just falls for us (I'm talking about in front of a group that paid to see you). Only one example comes to mind, Lance Burton. I'm no exception, I have to go into character in performance. Find the character in you that children or people in general love and you will be a hit. I'm still discovering mine but he's coming about.
Tony James
View Profile
Inner circle
Cheshire UK
1398 Posts

Profile of Tony James
One of the truly great vents working Europe is a Frenchman Henry Astor and you pronounce it exactly as it's written. Opens with a real live talking dog followed by bringing up two members of the audience - a man and a woman. Hilarious and all the more so because he works international cabarets to mixed audiences from across the world.

He normally appears in Paris at the Paradis Latin on the Left Bank, Top class show in an extraordinary cast iron Victorian theatre building, built by Monsieur Eiffel who built the famous Parisian Tower. The building was 'lost' for a long time and used for other things. The restoration in 1973 was a rediscovery of hidden architecture. Read about it on the website.

Well worth an evening if you visit Paris but do check with them as Henry isn't there all the time.

http://www.paradis-latin.com/accueil-par......x?lng=EN
Tony James

Still A Child At Heart
TheAmbitiousCard
View Profile
Eternal Order
Northern California
13414 Posts

Profile of TheAmbitiousCard
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 01:08, sinful lynne wrote:
Well, well, well. You men certainly know how to bicker about nonsense. Some of you certainly have no humor. I think James is a very funny man indeed. I bet he is a good magician. Kimmo, I want to learnt ventriloquism. Where should I turn for help?


Lynne


A ha! I am just realizing that I know who yo uare Sinful Lynne! We met at the Reno Convention a couple years ago and sat chatting by the slot machines for a while.

I remember you very well.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate,
Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder.
Neale Bacon
View Profile
Inner circle
Burnaby BC Canada
1775 Posts

Profile of Neale Bacon
As a ventriloquist more than a magician, I would just add that I think the performer is the most important aspect in entertaining children or almost anyone else.
I have seen magicians who were technically brilliant and as entertaining to watch as paint drying.

Why do we still laugh at Laurel and Hardy or the other silent comics? Because funny is still funny, and some of their movies are WAY beyond the 40 years we have been talking about.

I loved Chucky the Duck. was it ventriloquism? No, but was it funny? ABSOLUTELY!
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC
Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist
www.baconandfriends.com
Bill Scarlett
View Profile
Veteran user
Vermont
366 Posts

Profile of Bill Scarlett
Quote:
On 2008-03-12 04:03, Tony James wrote:
One of the truly great vents working Europe is a Frenchman Henry Astor and you pronounce it exactly as it's written. Opens with a real live talking dog followed by bringing up two members of the audience - a man and a woman. Hilarious and all the more so because he works international cabarets to mixed audiences from across the world.

He normally appears in Paris at the Paradis Latin on the Left Bank, Top class show in an extraordinary cast iron Victorian theatre building, built by Monsieur Eiffel who built the famous Parisian Tower. The building was 'lost' for a long time and used for other things. The restoration in 1973 was a rediscovery of hidden architecture. Read about it on the website.

Well worth an evening if you visit Paris but do check with them as Henry isn't there all the time.

http://www.paradis-latin.com/accueil-par......x?lng=EN


Tony,

Is it possible you are thinking of a man named Marc Metral? I saw him do a very similar sounding act with a live "talking dog" and a similar routine that you described where a man and woman are brought on stage and he does a vent routine with them.
Tony James
View Profile
Inner circle
Cheshire UK
1398 Posts

Profile of Tony James
No Bill. It was definitely Henry Aster who has worked this act for many years and, in the manner of French shows such as the Lido and Paradis Latin whose productions run for five or six years, the speciality acts work seasons within the run, sometimes returning over and again, as does Henry.

The background to the two elements is quite interesting. Whoever came earlier - and I would love to know who did because so little is truly new in our business - the first time I saw a vent putting words in to another's mouth like this was back around 1960.

Dennis Spicer was a young and outstandingly good vent. He would have become an international headliner act. Sadly he was killed not long afterwards in a car accident on the M1. Davenport's still have the amazing figure made specially for him and never collected.

Later Wayne Dobson adapted and made the routine his own here in the UK and various others, including Henry Astor and Marc Metral - who I haven't seen but is rather younger than Henry - have also adopted the idea. The talking dog is another fascination.

In the UK at the end of the war a former printer, Bert Langford took up magic and vent. By 1947 he was billed as Saveen. He had a very small boy 'doll' like figure which he converted to a little girl and called Daisy May after an old song which he used in the act. 'Daisy May, people say she'll marry me some day.'

Subsequently he was always billed as 'Daisy May assisted by Saveen' with Daisy may in big bold type and the rest in small type. He had other terrific figures, a sharp boy - wide boy, spiv, crook, you know the type - quite unsuitable for Daisy May who was fascinated by him and the two ended up together in the same case. priceless dialogue with the rarely heard these days, voice fading away to nothing as the lid slowly went down.

Albert also had a wonderful parrot routine but the best he was and is still remembered for is his closer routine with a comical looking noisy puppet dog. A real rough 'un plus a sophisticated real, alive, wire haired fox terrier. This live dog was silent and sat there, rather aloof and ignoring the puppet dog as it went crazy trying to gain a reaction and Saveen acted the offended owner, trying to silence it.

When the puppet dog spoke, the voice was laid back, laconic English, very cut glass and totally at odds with its appearance.

When the long suffering live dog finally spoke, its voice was rough and coarse and all it said was 'Shut that bloody dog up' which in polite 1950s England was cutting edge and brought the house down. But at the Royal Command Performance it was changed to 'ruddy' a popular euphemism for 'bloody'.

The mechanic was built by another vent, Jim Tattersall from Little Lever in Lancashire. Jim went on to a build a weird vent act with life-size figures, electro-mechanically controlled and home built from redundant relays and switchgear from telephone exchanges. Transistors weren't available at that time.

Even today people believe the talking dog was Saveen's own and he was terribly protective of it but the idea actually came from another, much earlier and almost forgotten offbeat act, Charlie Prelle and his Ventriloquial Dogs. Not just one but a whole line up of talking and singing dogs. And that wasn't original either!

It's said Charlie Prelle got the idea from an even earlier Russian act who in turn had borrowed and adapted the idea from a French domestic cat act.

It's just possible the talking animal act has gone full circle and returned to France where it all originally started!!!
Tony James

Still A Child At Heart
Tom Riddle
View Profile
Special user
Chelsea, UK
507 Posts

Profile of Tom Riddle
Tony.........that was a wonderful trip down memory lane. I have found a video clip featuring Saveen and dog. This may help illustrate a little better what Tony is talking about. You need to click on the picture:

http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/tv/children/other/daisymay.htm

I can bet you if you were to do a similar routine today at a birthday party with the two dogs, the children would be in hysterics!
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"

Thomas Williamson Riddle III
Chelsea, UK
Tony James
View Profile
Inner circle
Cheshire UK
1398 Posts

Profile of Tony James
I was hoping someone may be able to throw some light on American vents using volunteers as dummies and putting words into their mouths.

And has anyone any knowledge of the American development of the talking animal act?

When I mentioned the act of Tattersall & Company I didn't make it clear that these life size figures which were electronically and mechanically controlled were not just vent figures. They moved around the stage and in the case of two elderly figures, they danced whilst singing My Old Dutch - "We've been together now for forty years......"

Were there any similar robotic vent figures in America back in the 1940s?

These were clearly the first generation which eventually lead to todays animatronic figures.

What is the American history?
Tony James

Still A Child At Heart
chris mcbrien
View Profile
Inner circle
Chicago
1235 Posts

Profile of chris mcbrien
Tony IS the encyclopedia of British kid's entertainment! I"m still hoping he writes a book!
chris
Jolly Roger
View Profile
V.I.P.
Sedona, Arizona
1654 Posts

Profile of Jolly Roger
This is such an interesting thread, that I think it is well worth bringing back up to the top of The Little Darlings. So many wonderful posters, like the late Tony James, who was a genius in the world of children's entertainment, and I loved his posts. I am not sure who Tom Riddle is, or whether he is still around, but I think his original post is spot on. Children are basically the same as they were a hundred years go. In fact, I think I will dust off my Run Rabbit Run! I highly recommend you all give this thread a re-read, and it would be great if you were to comment. On another matter, I think the Green Place is so much more fun and educational than Facebook, which was not even around when Tom started this thread. Don't you? Smile
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » So much nonsense! (2 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.27 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL