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Wizzo the wizard
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Hey Kimmo,
I bet you look better in trunks than I do. I will be seeing you at kidology. And I will buy you a drink and if George is there as well I will also buy him one.
Cheers
Louis
The Great Smartini
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On 2008-03-07 18:07, kimmo wrote:

[/quote]

I thought that James' original comments on Smartini's post were nothing more than a bit of good natured ribbing - just like the comments about me performing in my trunks! It's time we learned to take these sort of comments on the chin and just give back as good as we get, without taking offense.


[/quote]

Kimmo

You're quite right about need to lighten things up but I still have a problem with James making the comment "creepy" as its just too much. If he was able to be big enough to retract that comment or acknowledge that it isn't appropriate then I might be able to lighten up and keep to the topic. I just find it frustrating when people don't add anything constructive to the conversation and want to use the Café to put down others. I'm trying to participate in a discussion and will honestly consider the thoughts of others as this helps all of us grow in the art of magic. Jokes and putdowns at the expense of others is something we don't need to do with our volunteer helpers or our fellow magicians.

jeff
magicgeorge
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Hi Louis, I'll be there. That's very kind of you. I have been known to have a tipple or 2!

George
Al Angello
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Tom & Tony
They asked me to be a grammar host so I can get help with my grammar. I can't tell you how many of my friends who have PMed me just to correct my grammar. It has been a real learning experience, and I thank the magic Café for giving me the oportunity to learn what the good sisters of St. Joseph were unable to do. Just for the record I do have a tripple digit IQ but not much more than that.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
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NJJ
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I'm suprised how much agreement there is on such a heated thread! There seems too major points being made.

1) Magicians often throw away or reject ideas and effects because they are 'old' when really they are just as relevant as they ever were.

2) Magicians often keep 'old' effects and ideas when they are no longer relevant.

The powder blue suit needs to go....the invisible deck can stay.
The racist chinaman presentation needs to go...the paper balls over the head is still gold.

The key is being aware of BOTH history and modern culture so you can create the best act for your audience.
magicgeorge
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I'm not sure how high my IQ is but I do have other talents, for instance; I can make this great noise when I bash an empty biscuit tin on my head.

Ha, Nick, you'll never believe this but out of the old-timers in my area one wears a powder blue suit and another does a chinese act!

George
Tom Riddle
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I have an interesting observation. By my calculation(and I have an EXTREMELEY high I.Q.), I realise that there are one quarter of the number of posts sofar on this thread than there are on Steve Axtell's Animatronics thread. Does this mean that a quarter of those posting on the LD are in favour of using the traditional props, and three quarters of those posting are more in favour of the newer and more expensive inventions?

I would also be interested if we could play with time. If someone was to use an animatronics puppet or a remote contol (Sean Bogata) floating hank in the 1940's, I have no doubt the children would be flaberghasted(sp?). Today, they might be a little bit impressed. In 10 years, I would suggest they might be very unimpressed. However...linking rings, RRR, and Chop Cup will still amaze the little ones a century from now.....providing they are performed well.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"

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magicgeorge
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I think your extremely high IQ must be busy tackling more important matters, Tom, as that is the most illogical mathematical deduction I've ever heard!
The Great Smartini
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Quote:
On 2008-03-07 20:43, Tom Riddle wrote:
I have an interesting observation. By my calculation(and I have an EXTREMELEY high I.Q.), I realise that there are one quarter of the number of posts sofar on this thread than there are on Steve Axtell's Animatronics thread. Does this mean that a quarter of those posting on the LD are in favour of using the traditional props, and three quarters of those posting are more in favour of the newer and more expensive inventions?

I would also be interested if we could play with time. If someone was to use an animatronics puppet or a remote contol (Sean Bogata) floating hank in the 1940's, I have no doubt the children would be flaberghasted(sp?). Today, they might be a little bit impressed. In 10 years, I would suggest they might be very unimpressed. However...linking rings, RRR, and Chop Cup will still amaze the little ones a century from now.....providing they are performed well.


I'd say that the prop that had the best presentation would be the one that is most impressive. The prop is the tool and the magician is the carpenter.

For myself, I'd much rather see the floating hank than the linking rings, Run Rabbit Run or the chop cup. Unless the chop cup was the cup and ball routine of Master Payne. As for the RRR I would go for the Run Wolf Run update from Wolfs Magic which is in my opinion the best ever made. The linking rings have never been my cup of tea and I've yet to see a routine that has ever been that impressive.
Stevethomas
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On those pesky Linking Rings, I think Harry Anderson said it best when he commented, "if you're gonna do the linking rings, hook 'em together, take 'em apart and move on to something they'll actually give a $**t about!". Enough said.

Steve
The Great Smartini
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That's an absolutely hilarious quote from a magician of some stature. I have to say I couldn't agree more!
Wizzo the wizard
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Now I know that Geroge will be at Kidology I had better start saving up my pennies.
See you there George.
Louis
kimmo
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Run Wolf Run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xNNbMbImaU

The Linking Rings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrRoArCRb-U


Once again, It's all about the PERFORMANCE, not the props!! It will take a lot more work and a hell of a lot more skill to get a reaction from the linking rings, but a good routine will thrill and entertain young and old alike. It's one of those tricks that everyone thinks they know how it's done, so when they see it done well they really sit up and take notice.

To be honest, I have yet to see a video of any Wolf Magic prop that has blown me away (that's down to the performer of course, I'm not knocking Chance's stuff, which is the best made in the world)

Posted: Mar 8, 2008 5:47am
I found a far better version of RWR here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crd6yXXO6e8

Great routine for kids - but pretty much identical to what kids entertainers were doing with RRR 50 years ago.
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NJJ
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I personally don't think that RRR is a particularly good bit of magic. It's not very amazing and most performances I see tend to be quite repetive and boring.

Give me a good die box any day Smile
Al Kazam the Magic Man
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I have to agree that Billy Whizz does a great job with all of his magic. Again it's all in the routine and not in the prop. I've seen the other clip of RWR that's on youtube and to be honest the routine was terrible and I didn't feel there was anything good at all about it.

For the record, I use a Kovari Turbo Bunny, which is probably over 20 years old. Combined with a modified Supreme effect, and it is the routine in my show that gets the best reaction and the kids are very entertained. Again, it's the routine and bits of business that do it for me.

JoJo
Al Kazam --> Magic guy in Perth Australia
Tom Riddle
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"I personally don't think that RRR is a particularly good bit of magic. It's not very amazing"

I don't think, Nicholas, it was ever meant to be a particularly good bit of magic, unlike the linking rings. However, with the right presentation, it can become a masterpiece. We are talking about entertaining young children here, where laughing, shouting and having fun are far more important than being mystified IMHO. This is what makes RRR one of the classics of children's entertainment.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"

Thomas Williamson Riddle III
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Bill Nuvo
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JR's ring routine: My opinions

As a parent: I enjoyed that fact that it didn't "talk down" to the children. The music was a nice touch, although not my cup of tea. Totally non-offensive and safe.

As a magician: Technique could have been better.

RJ's ring routine:

As a parent: Some of the material was too quick and hard to follow for my young children. Some jokes were questionable.

As a magician: Technique was great, routine was captivating and edgy.

The difference between the two were the intended audiences and therefore can't really be compared.

I agree with what has been said before that it is about the performance rather than the props.

Day 8
Tony James
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I like Run Wolf Run now I've seen it. BUT............

Neither of those two videos do it any favours. I don't know who these characters are or what else they do but both could not handle that prop for toffee.

Terrible. Awful. They showed not the slightest understanding of children's entertainment nor how to get anything out of the prop. All they got was noise and in the first video noise that was not controlled.

The second video the guy gained control but it looked as if he had gained it by accident.

Why don't you allow a British children's entertainer to show you how to use these type of props to best effect whilst keeping complete control over the audience.

It demonstrates again this feeling - I hope it is not seen as British prejudice - but this feeling that so many in America buy expensive props and haven't the first clue how to use them apart from following the written instructions.

I can only tell you that any British primary school teacher would not be booking either of those two on that showing.

My Aunt Jane could do better than that and she's been dead for 20 years.
Tony James

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The Great Smartini
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More British ego clearly showing through. I know it's supposed to be funny but I guess I just don't get it. I love Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Benny Hill and even On the Buses but this British children's entertainer superiority thing just wears a little thin. It sounds like a much overused kid show line that needs to just go away.

I noticed on another Little Darlings thread that world champion Kimmo is considering purchasing one of the new Axtell animatronic puppets. This seems to challenge the theory that classic props are the only way to go. If its good enough for a world champion then...hmmm.

Finally, as for Wolfs Magic stuff not being used well...just check out any of demos from Arthur Atsma and you will see the potential that these props have. Again, we all know and acknowledge that its not the prop its the magician who makes them come to life.

jeff
Tony James
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No Jeff. You misread us. Truly you do. I am not being funny. I mean it.

I wish I didn't. I haven't yet seen a any video of any children's entertainers your side of the pond who could hold a candle to even retired geriatrics in the UK.

What I am hoping is that someone WILL direct me to quality. Good heavens. A country the size of America must have ONE decent children's entertainer, surely to goodness.

But so far they are not turning up. Perhaps the really good ones are also the very sensible ones and they don't go posting rubbish routines on You Tube.

You are a wonderfully tolerant lot over there and so polite. Absolute rubbish videos are posted and everyone gushes over how wonderful they are. We know you don't mean it. Might be better not to encourage it.

Now come along Jeff. With an IQ of 168 you should know.

Where are these good children's entertainers?
Tony James

Still A Child At Heart
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