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chichi711
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Here is an interesting article that deals with this exact thread.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/123484?GT1=43002
MagicSanta
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I didn't go to the link yet but I'm amazed that News Week would cover this thread, must be a sloooow news week.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2008-03-19 12:17, Alex Linian wrote:
Interesting. I knew there wasn't much of a point to the thread. I just didn't think it would be missed completely by almost everyone.


I like the way you want to sit high and mighty on your high horse and say things.

But oddly enough after Blaine's FIRST special, he started doing the big things, Frozen in Time, and such. You know, not the "intimate things with big reactions", you are trying to be all preachy about.

Maybe everyone is just doing what you claim your hero is doing Alex. They are trying to emulate him as it is now. You want to preach to someone why not preach to your hero? He seems to be the one who is doing all the huge stunts now, and continues to get further and further away from the gospel of which you speak.

Oh and as Santa said, Blaine did NOT invent close up magic by a long shot. It may very well have been the first time you came across it, but that does not make it the begining.

Also Alex not everyone can afford a camera crew to edit footage like your hero does for network specials.

I respect what he has done, but to chastise others like you are and act all superior seems out of line. People are having fun doing magic the way they want oo. Leave them alone.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Alex Linian
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Quote:
On 2008-03-22 19:24, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-19 12:17, Alex Linian wrote:
Interesting. I knew there wasn't much of a point to the thread. I just didn't think it would be missed completely by almost everyone.


I like the way you want to sit high and mighty on your high horse and say things.

But oddly enough after Blaine's FIRST special, he started doing the big things, Frozen in Time, and such. You know, not the "intimate things with big reactions", you are trying to be all preachy about.

Maybe everyone is just doing what you claim your hero is doing Alex. They are trying to emulate him as it is now. You want to preach to someone why not preach to your hero? He seems to be the one who is doing all the huge stunts now, and continues to get further and further away from the gospel of which you speak.

Oh and as Santa said, Blaine did NOT invent close up magic by a long shot. It may very well have been the first time you came across it, but that does not make it the begining.

Also Alex not everyone can afford a camera crew to edit footage like your hero does for network specials.

I respect what he has done, but to chastise others like you are and act all superior seems out of line. People are having fun doing magic the way they want oo. Leave them alone.


Hmmm... Through your effort of trying to bring me down to what you consider to be the absolute truth, you also managed to miss the point as well. I guess I should´ve explained what I meant in simpler terms. Then again, Michael got it right away.

"People are having fun doing what they want to"... not necessarily true. You can have fun doing something you think you want to be doing, based on what you were made to believe it is you want to do. Many think they are doing what Blaine is doing, when in reality their purpose is something entirely different, something Blaine´s magic is not about. This conversation had nothing to do with "How to capture reactions on camera", nothing at all.

"Leave the alone"......

How exactly do you preach about not preaching by preaching...?

O well.
MagicSanta
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Perhaps everyone missing your point is more a reflection on your inability to communicate clearly and less on those trying to understand your grand statements.
Alex Linian
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I agree. Somewhat.

(... It wasn´t much of a grand statemente though... more like (as stated) an almost pointless observation...)

It´s all subjective though.
Dannydoyle
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Yea Alex nobody can think as grand as you. Nobody can understand your imense knowlege. You are the only voice of reason in the world.

Like Santa said it may not be our inability to understand as much as your in ability to comunicate your hero worship feelings to us.

Or maybe there is another problem. Could be that you are just wrong.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Joe Russell
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David's my hero too Alex.
Who is Tattoo Joe?
jfkkraemer
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DannyD, do you ever have any thing nice to say? I guess not reading thru some of your posts. Other people have opinions and are entitled to them. You seem to be the one always sitting so high and mighty on the horse and I'm sure quite a few people would agree. Give it a rest for a change, your an old broken record!
MagicSanta
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Danny is very nice, I don't know why some of you attack him so harshly.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2008-03-25 18:50, jfkkraemer wrote:
DannyD, do you ever have any thing nice to say? I guess not reading thru some of your posts. Other people have opinions and are entitled to them. You seem to be the one always sitting so high and mighty on the horse and I'm sure quite a few people would agree. Give it a rest for a change, your an old broken record!


There ya go, when you can't attack the message, attack the messenger LOL. Nice try.

Alex was the one who was excoriating others was he not? I was the one who said let people do magic how they want too. Or did you miss that part because you want to be angry with me? Guess so.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
jfkkraemer
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Didn't miss a thing Danny, your negative and condescending attitude towards most on this forum is just getting tiring. If you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all, if you have something constructive to offer than fine, most newbies to magic could probably learn from you but your rude and demeaning nature takes away from your worth as an experienced entertainer. Have you not noticed it's always the other guy, he started it, he didn't understand what I meant. Stop for one second and think about that. You are always so quick to insult or speak in such a derogatory way to other members and you are forever back peddling. A great example

" There ya go, when you can't attack the message, attack the messenger LOL. Nice try."

I believe your message spoke volumes, I saw no need to attack the message but I did see a need to speak up on your delivery method. Stop and think how you seem to always attack both and when things get hot as they often do when you are concerned. You try to play word games and are very good at deflecting what the real issue was. If you can't handle someone having an opinion (be it right or wrong) you should keep yours to yourself.

For the record Danny, I'm not angry with you, more disapointed in your behavour. I like many others have joined this forum to seek help, offer help and have an enjoyable time learning and perfecting my craft. This forum is not yours, it's everyones and I don't believe you show much respect to the members or the forum with your constant negative behavour. I'm sorry that you get so upset with others and maybe that is something you should work on in the future. I don't know you personally but I am convinced from many of your posts you have an over abundance of skill and information to share with other performers in our field as well as hobbiests and for lack of a better term newbies to magic.

I will apoligize for the tone I took in my original post, had I used a little more thought and consideration I would have choosen words a lot more carefully. I hope we can get past this on the forum and both learn from this. I'm sure as I mentioned above you have a wealth of information to offer and share with people on here both with experience and without and I in future will try to choose my words more carefully and with some diplomicy.

Jeff Kraemer
Alex Linian
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For the non-necessary-but-what-the-hell record, there is not a single attack in my original post.

May have been a case of expectancy, and of seeing-what-you-wanna-see that made you believe this (you know about this stuff). It is justified for you to do this though, since I've used the terms "right" and "wrong" before. Not anymore.

Thanks for caring thought Danny. Peace.
MagicSanta
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Darn Jeff, Danny doesn't need anyone to speak for him but to be honest with you if the old days returned and the net wasn't thought of most people on this forum would beg to be able to get information like what Danny gives out and they wouldn't care if he wasn't coddling them. Here someone needs to just register to have access to experienced magicians but they don't bring respect or try to show they have earned the access like in the years gone by. I remember looking at Dai Vernon and knowing I wouldn't have access to his wisdom face to face, but that was something I had to earn like everyone else.

Danny, I appreciate your wisdom and guidance and that you exemplify what this board is about, magicians helping magicians...and I guess magicians helping wannabes too.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2008-03-26 22:18, jfkkraemer wrote:
If you can't handle someone having an opinion (be it right or wrong) you should keep yours to yourself.



You took the words right out of my mouth.

If you don't like the way the information is delivered, then don't read it. Pretty simple really.

As I said it is odd though. You attack me as if I was putting down EVERYONE. Well it was Alex who seemed in his first post to be telling everyone what they are doing wrong, how things should be different and why he is right and everyone is wrong.

I simply said if people are having fun let them be.

Now tell me how this was condecending to anyone please?

THEN we can work on getting past it. Read my whole post, and who it was aimed at please, then lets talk.

Oh and a PM may be a better place to do that don't you think? After all your problem is with me PERSONALLY.

And Alex, who are you to tell people if they are having fun doing magic the way they are doing it or not? You talk about "You can have fun doing something you think you want to be doing, based on what you were made to believe it is you want to do" and pretend that you can think for them.

My point, before Jeff got all hot under the collar, is let them do magic THEIR WAY. THEY want to do it, let them. Where is the harm in that exactly? (and Jeff I ask again how this is an attack on everyone or condecending? In your haste to attack the messenger you completly misread the message aparantly.)
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
jfkkraemer
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I see your point MagicSanta and I would agree for the most part. The days of old required a lot more experience and battle scars before one could even hope to have a sit down or even ask a few questions with the likes of a Vernon a Marlow or a Henning or for that matter who ever. Times were quite different back then, maybe better who knows. But we can not go back we can only go forward now. Times are very much different whether we like it or not and we all need to accept change accordingly.

This is the age of the internet, these forums were not around in the good old days and peoples philosophies have changed. Just because one has more experience and more time in some thing by no means gives them a right to respect from others just as well as being a youth now a days doesn't give them the right to think the deserve respect. Respect is some thing that is earned, by hard work, by experience and by treating others with the same respect you feel you deserve to be treated with.

I would suggest to you that I was not speaking for Danny and believe me I had no intention of my post to sound in any way that I was.

I would also point out that if their was a test/audition to prove your self as a qualified magician to gain access to this site the Café would see it's membership vanish. If that happens, well we are all inteligent enough to figure out what would happen then (bye-bye Café). So we take the good with the bad when it comes to technology and will have to learn to deal with it and accept it.

Treat others with respect and dignity and those same people will treat you with that same respect. Demanding it will get a person absolutely none.

Magic Santa I have stated my opinion, I have apoligized to Danny for my poor choice of words earlier and I hope in future we can all remember what this board is about. Magicians helping Magicians.

Jeff Kraemer
Alex Linian
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Well, I think points what been stated and noone will change their thinking unless there's something in it for them...

I still have that one question though...



How do you preach about not preaching by preaching?...

How do you tell me not to tell others what not to do by telling me what not to do?...

How do you teach someone not to post against an opinion they don't like by posting against an opinion you don't like?

...
I don't know. I don't think I'll ever know.



...Maybe.

Alex Linian
Dannydoyle
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Obviously Alex you were preaching LOL.

Get as philisophical as you want to in order to distract, but the fact remains people do what they want, let them be.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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