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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Manipulation act in real world - give me a break! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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magic4u02
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John: lol I had to get my fix from posting a long post. hehehe I feel SOOOOOO uch better. hehehe Emotional response is something denny told me about as well as what we refer to as a personality piece. Something in the show that allows the audience to see you as one of them to draw them inwards towards you. I use both of them in my manipulative acts as it adds so much more and a new level to what I do.

I actually perform manipulation at festivals in our show and also as a part of my strolling magic. It can be done but you must pratcice and know which moves you can do well with angles and which you need to put aside because they just will not work. But it can be done and I have a lot of success with it.

Chris is exactly right. technique should be such that the audience sees nothing. Also keep in mind that to an audience a lot of our manipulative moves look the same. card vanishes and reappears ok I get it. We tend to fall in love with our techniques cause we love the technical aspect of magic we do. The lay audience does not care so much about technique. They want to be enteratined period. We have totake a step back and find out just how we can make out manipulative routine entertaining for them besides just showing skill alone.

Kyle
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Paul Jester
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Thanks for the Topas quote, he truely is a genius!

Y'all forgot about cabaret venues! Best place to work in a manip act. Adult shows, for a drinking audience, one of several acts often including singers and comedians, usually pretty good angles, and you can play music. Just in case the angles are awful, pack your cups and balls!

Then when you're good, and have built up a show, any place where a lot of people holiday tends to hire entertainers and magicians.

There's definitely a career ladder to climb for the magician/manipulator, if you want to...

And learn manips because a full evening show without a manipulative section wouldn't be a complete show.

Lets not forget that when the Vaudville circuit in America declined Cardini took his act and made it performable in nightclubs (which were a little different from the modern day nightclub!).

Paul
Chipper Lowell
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Topas, the worldwide known german magician and illusionist braught out his own points to concerning the objetcs to use in manipulation acts :

"Manipulation act are interesting for an audience if the objects used are :

- hand sized
- quickly recognizable by the audience
- have some value (at least a little bit, not like used tissue paper)
- have some emotions involved

There would be some extra positif points if the objects used :

- could extend their volume or size naturally (umbrella, fans, glasses...)
- look modern
- which optical point could be raised by an accustic interest (music instruments, bells that sounds...)
- could be naturally put on or used directly (put on the hat used, the glasses, a ring on the finger).
- are generally difficult to handle (fire, ice, hedgehog...)"
________________________________________________________________

Topas is ON the MONEY with the above words of wisdom.

I would add this:

WE are the ones who decide and catagorize this subject as "Manipulation", not the audience. They are only seeing a finished piece that HAPPENS to have, say, cards vanish and appear at the performer's fingertips.

A piece of music captures the passion of a choreographer so they take it into the studio and work with it, letting it help dictate what the final dance might be. It's often AT THAT POINT that the choreographer can then safely say, "Yeah, it really turned into a modern dance piece" or "It worked better as a duet" or "The music seemed perfect as a solo piece" or whatever...

What I'm getting at is that most magicians make the mistake of FIRST making a LIST of effects or tricks, blindly throwing them into categories that ONLY magicians would clearly recognize (like "manip"), long before they find the good, logical reason, justification, and even a minimum THRU-LINE of a plot to hang the magic on. The thinking is backwards.

When it was first asked "why do manipulations because it didn't seem "practical"", the same could be said for pretty much everything, almost making the question moot. Why have a trained dog act when it could only be performed outside. Why produce a giant glass bowl of water when it will only damage the floor.

So, change the thinking....Create your ultimate act of WHAT you'd like to see in a performance -- work on it, tweak it, and then as you rehearse you'll find what actually is practical and what isn't. This way you keep the VISION and the PASSION of your art form, instead of degrading it to a point that you're simply trying to fit a show into a particular situation or surroundings.

And THINK OUTSIDE of the BOX. Maybe you don't NEED to do an ENTIRE manip act, BUT THAT'S OKAY. A simple card appearance at your fingertips coming at an unexpected point during the act (if it fits with your story-line and is justified) can be a wonderful moment.

Use the "techniques" of manipulation to BEST put over your show. But don't be a slave to simply DOING a manipulation act because that's what 1,000's of magicians do.

Wish you the best in your endeavors!

Chipper : )
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<BR>email: chipper@chipper.tv
Faulkner
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Hedgehog manipulation...do they have a ***ll??
WagsterMagic
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No that's for turtle manipulation!

LOL!
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jasanchez
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I perform my card manipulation act in all the parties I have, I alway have a backdrop
that way I force the audience to be in front of me, if theirs no backdrop then Ill set up in a place people cant stand behind me. But card manipulation is pretty much possible any ware.
Nedim
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I think manipulation is the most magical step of magic. Because all your act is magicial. There are no boxes..etc. There are many good examples who do great manipulation all over the world.

Cards are great objects for manipulation. Also you can think about silks and balls.


magicially yours,


Nedim Guzel
Joshua Barrett
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Lots of good points, I for one think manipulation has a lot of offer. I do everything from close to some manipulation items. the fact is nothing is good in all venues.

some performers have adapted for there situation.

david stone, and john carney have both published excellt close up card manipulation routines.

stones is quite wonderful
trashmanf
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I am a big fan of Jeff McBride's DVDs on card manipulation and am working on a classic production routine.

but it is important to note (to address the original post) that many manipulations (armspread, fans, springs etc) , while not technically "magical", are still entertaining, and wholly angle-proof ;-)

so, I recommend putting together an all-flourish act if you need something that can be performed anytime, anywhere!

however, if you're not happy about practicing... don't even try... routining flourishes can be even more difficult than routining productions, and that is TOUGH as heck!
Joshua Barrett
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I think they are very technically "magical". in fact I think its more magicial then most close up card magic. this of course is only true if the performer can do it seemingly effortless. I watched many card manipulations growing up and I was always quite amazed I didn't start magic until my early 20's and before that I knew nothing of palms etc, and most people are the same
Big Daddy Cool
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Lonny Divine developed his award-winning Robot Man manip act working in the round at Opry Mills Mall in Nashville...
Swing hard, swing often, and we'll catch ya on the Flip-Side!
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jimmy talksalot
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Is any one reading my posts about the street?

this is exactly why cellini and sheridan went to the street.

there is now a huge comunity of manipulators working all day long every day on the street and getting booked in the appropriate venues because of it.

many venue guys who hire watch and know if it would suit there establishment.

quite frequently I get club owners approaching me.

since I have gone to the street I have had no problem getting booked into the appropriate venues.

infact I turn them down a lot because I can't afford to do some of them with what I make on the street. I simply don't have the time in the busking season.

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT REASON FOR THE STREET IS,

stage time and learning angle proof manips so that it doesn't matter what venue your booked in after awhile. it also teaches you how to captivate the tuffest crowd in any situation or in any place.

please read my posts on this section.

please.

I believe many magicians are trying to do their business in an out dated way.

just as houdin and some others brought us into the theater and david coperfield and blain brought us to the t.v.

shouldn't we as manipulators move where we can work?
JamesTong
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I have been performing my manipulation act for more than 30 years and still doing it now in all kind of venues. And I have been working around the Asia Pacific countries at different venues strictly with my manipulation act only.

There are many ways or techniques you can use to create good visual entertaining effects. And if the techniques helps in minimizing angle problems, I don't see why a manipulation act cannot be perform well in many places.

Here's my belief. If I am considered a magician by the lay audience, then I should be able to create miracles in the audiences' mind with my bare hands. Hence my choice in focusing in manipulation. In fact, close up is also a form of manipulation (sleight of hands effects) too.

Just my 2 cents.
Big Daddy Cool
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Quote:
On 2008-10-06 05:02, jimmy talksalot wrote:
Is any one reading my posts about the street?

this is exactly why cellini and sheridan went to the street.

there is now a huge comunity of manipulators working all day long every day on the street and getting booked in the appropriate venues because of it.

many venue guys who hire watch and know if it would suit there establishment.

quite frequently I get club owners approaching me.

since I have gone to the street I have had no problem getting booked into the appropriate venues.

infact I turn them down a lot because I can't afford to do some of them with what I make on the street. I simply don't have the time in the busking season.

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT REASON FOR THE STREET IS,

stage time and learning angle proof manips so that it doesn't matter what venue your booked in after awhile. it also teaches you how to captivate the tuffest crowd in any situation or in any place.

please read my posts on this section.

please.

I believe many magicians are trying to do their business in an out dated way.

just as houdin and some others brought us into the theater and david coperfield and blain brought us to the t.v.

shouldn't we as manipulators move where we can work?


I 've been reading, and agree. That's why I mentioned Lonny developing a manip act In the Round. Cellini, Sheriden, and apparently Jimmy have been doing this for years.
Swing hard, swing often, and we'll catch ya on the Flip-Side!
John Pyka
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jimmy talksalot
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JamesTong,

point taken.

I couldn't agree more.

in the states and some other places it is difficult to find live venues.

in europe there is a much bigger demand and it is to the best of my knowledge that asia also. I was told this from my american friends abroad in asia and other sources,blah lah, any way, I may be way off base but I was assuming that the original complaint was from a fellah in one of the counrties with little to no venues for those of us with less promotional skills.

Big Daddy Cool,

also point taken.

I'm just a little overly ethusiastic because of how the streets have changed my life and solved all these problems I myself was suffering from until cellini and my teachers had directed me this way.

thanks both of you for tolerating my outspoken ramblings.
Matt Watts
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I look at manipulation magic as a personal goal.it does appeal to lay audience.Dont bore them with it though.I have litteraly seen some one do a color fanning deck and the audience was like"what the hell is the point".I feel that manipulation magic is more amusing to magicians due to the work that we put into a single act.
JamesTong
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Quote:
On 2008-10-24 17:11, magicmatt229 wrote:
I look at manipulation magic as a personal goal.it does appeal to lay audience.Dont bore them with it though.I have litteraly seen some one do a color fanning deck and the audience was like"what the hell is the point".I feel that manipulation magic is more amusing to magicians due to the work that we put into a single act.


If one were to develop a manipulative act srtictly to show off their technical abilities, then it is predictable for the audience to have such reactions.

There are many techniques that bring out 'Magic Effects' that will amaze the audience including the color fanning decks. In fact I have develop a color fanning routine that brings applause and wonder every time I perform it. That is because there is magic elements in it and not just showing off the different color fans repeatedly.

One can learn and master 1,000 manipulative techniques but if they do not bring out the magic then that manipulative act will not last long in the market. It may get the support of some magicians but not the lay audiences.

The problem is not in the manipulative act but in developing a good magical and entertaining manipulative act. Many just go about learning as many techniques and then stringing them up and then call it a manipulative act.

A good manipulative act will pass the test of time. That act will continue to be seen in the market. That act will also be hot selling and most importantly will bring in good food for the family.

If a manipulative act don't sell, then it is not an act the market will want to pay for. The fault lies in the creator of the act and not "manipulative acts".
Matt Watts
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Absolutely agreed.It seems that there are a lot of people who perform bad manipulation acts and make manipulation magic look bad.I am working on my manipulation act every day.I have had numerous people come up to me and say that my manipulation act was the coolest part of my show.(not because my show blows.lol.because it doesn't.Because they enjoyed the pure beauty of slight of hand magic)
JamesTong
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Yes, manipulation routines when they are well done is a beauty to watch. There is mystery and magic in it and it is visual.
magic4u02
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Great stuff here. I always believe that just because you know 100 ways to vanish a card, does not mean your audience wants to see every one of them. We must remember always that the moves are our tools of the trade. Like a master painter, he/she knows just which tools to use to create the work of art. In most cases simplicity can create great things.

Whether you are on the street or on the stage doing manipulations, you still must be entertaining. A show of skill alone will only get you so far if you are not engaging the audience. Use manipulative magic as a base from which to build upon. Add elements to what you do to engage the audience in different ways.

Kyle
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