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andrelimantara Special user Surabaya, Indonesia 871 Posts |
I heard Mendoza Cup is one of the best cup for worker.
How do you compare it with Sherwood cup ? Any aspect Thanks in advance for you opinion ps: I use Sherwood smooth cup for comparasion thanks Cheers Andre
"Good performance comes from good practice, Great performance comes from the heart - Andre Limantara"
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pepka Inner circle Uh, I'm the one on the right. 5041 Posts |
Well, having never handled a set of the Mendoza cups, I can't speak too much for them. The only thing I can say is that the Mendoza cups are a combo set made to do John's routine. One of the cups is gaffed to facilitate some very clean moves that John was the first to utilize in a cups and balls routine. You COULD do the moves with Brett's cups, but you'd have to buy an additional cup. I just acquired a set of JES cups. After years of using Brett's silver engraved cups for my formal shows, and Riser standards for practice/restaurant work, I really feel like they are too small. They might just take some getting used to though.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
This is one of those things that you would have to determine by actually handling both sets of cups. I can't tell you what is best for you.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
True, but how about a size and wall thickness comparison between the two cups and/or the difference in gimmick strength - are they equal, or is one superior?
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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Richard Evans Inner circle 1379 Posts |
I love the Sherwoods, but these look like a fine set too. I'm tempted (again).
What size final load do the Mendoza cups take - is it a tennis ball?
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three. Elayne Boosler
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Blondin New user Oxford, England 61 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-07 04:30, Richard Evans wrote: Richard, without wishing to lead you further into temptation I can report that they are a fine set and comfortably take a tennis ball as a final load. To accommodate the gaff and to ensure that each cup looks and weighs the same, each cup has an insert which finishes between the two rings of the cup and is therefore well concealed and hardly noticeable on casual observation. |
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andrelimantara Special user Surabaya, Indonesia 871 Posts |
Mendoza cup can take a tennis ball as a load. so it's same mouth with bret's cup
Hmm I'm really interested in the answer for Mr. Muggle question :) cheeers
"Good performance comes from good practice, Great performance comes from the heart - Andre Limantara"
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kentfgunn Inner circle Merritt Island FL 1639 Posts |
Brett's gaffed cups can neither hold a tennis ball nor a Sherwood final load ball with out being "tippy" on the table. You can definitely see that something is askew if you have the max load size, for the non-gaffed cups, in a gaffed cup.
As for the Mendoza cups . . . I ordered a set some time ago, when they arrive I'll chime in again. In no way do I mean to imply I am not 100% satisfied with my Sherwood cups. I have taken my little silver toys on thousands of run-throughs and performances. They are no collector set now. But I would have, nor would I perform with any other set!!! |
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bdekolta Inner circle Texas 1636 Posts |
I was really surprised at how small the JES cups were. Too small for me so I gave them to a friend. The pictures I saw of the Mendoza cups look very nice. I don't use a combo for any routine but the extra weight would be nice. Haven't handled Sherwood cups.
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Richard Evans Inner circle 1379 Posts |
The original JES cups are a bit small. The second run of cups made by RnT2 are a much better size - the've been made larger so they will take a lacrosse ball (like the Paul Fox cups). The 3-ring design suits them, too.
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three. Elayne Boosler
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andrelimantara Special user Surabaya, Indonesia 871 Posts |
Kentfgunn : Hmm being "tippy" isn't good. so you have to use smaller load if you use gaffed cup ?
but if you look from the shape of the cup bret's has smaller bottom. and I like bret's shape better... is there any advantages using big bottom like mendoza's has ?
"Good performance comes from good practice, Great performance comes from the heart - Andre Limantara"
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kentfgunn Inner circle Merritt Island FL 1639 Posts |
Andre,
Yes, I use smaller loads so I don't get the tipping. BUT my loading sequence is sort of brazen and I also needed smaller loads to keep viewing angle, sans flashes, acceptable. I've never had Mendoza cups in my hands. Jake has shipped my cups. If the USPS ever gets their act together, I'll chime in. |
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
Thanks to everyone for the comparison info - I was unaware the Sherwoods couldn't hold a tennis ball for a final load. I'm still interested in a size and wall thickness comparison between the two cups and/or the difference in gimmick strength - can anyone post or PM me this information?
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
The Sherwood's CAN hold a tennis ball. I think KG was talking about the chopped version of the cup. just making sure we're clear. anyone disagree?
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
Nope, that's the way I read it.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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kentfgunn Inner circle Merritt Island FL 1639 Posts |
Herr Sherwood's cups hold a tennis ball/Sherwood Load ball perfectly. If you spend the additional fee for a chopped one, it will NOT hold a tennis ball. Brett is MORE than forthcoming about this, on his website.
KG PS. Frank, Dave, I'm glad you guys can read!! |
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magicorik Loyal user Italia 203 Posts |
I will let you know as soon as my Mendoza's will be delivered to my door.
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andrelimantara Special user Surabaya, Indonesia 871 Posts |
Hmm can't wait to hear about mendoza cup...
Hmm is it a big inside interior differenced between normal sherwood and chopped sherwood ? If you could have both of them, which one will you use for professional performance ? Cheers Andre
"Good performance comes from good practice, Great performance comes from the heart - Andre Limantara"
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-07 16:04, magicorik wrote: Thanks - looking forward to your review.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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Mad Jake Inner circle All the voices in my head helped me make 2200 Posts |
I figured I would chime in here. I don't believe that one cup is less desirable than the other Sherwood/Mendoza. What one has to keep in mind is the functionality and the tools they are investing in.
The Sherwood sets are fine sets. But as mentioned and again Brett doesn't hide this, the load for the gaffed cup will not take a tennis ball. Why is this? I believe it's because the chop version of the cup was an afterthought on Brett's part. Meaning, they decided to make a matching chop cup for the straight sets. In order to maintain original shape and dimensions of the exterior cup, existing tooling appears to have been used and the gaff made to fit the original. The gaff reduces the interior space when this is done, but the outside dimensions remain the same. We worked for years on the Mendoza cups, they were intended to be a combo set, with that said, 2 pieces of tooling were needed, one for the cup and one for the gaff, both pieces were engineered to accomodate a tennis ball of regulation size. So from conception, these were engineered to be Combo sets. Brett would most likely have to retool everything to correct the issue, something that is hard to justify as tooling is not cheap to either make yourself or have done. Another factor in our combo cups we produce and even our chop cups, was the gaff strength. 6 years ago I started to address this issue as gaffs were changing. The adjustable gaff ball did the trick and I still work on this to make improvements. The fact that one can adjust the push/pull of the gaff can allow the performer to compensate from gaffs varying from chop cups to combo sets, releases if working on different surfaces. The gaff must work correctly each and every time, so with the performer being able to tweak settings, they can get the exact pull and release that they need based on their own performing techniques. I've seen and agree with most posts, the Sherwoods are beautiful, but that darn gaff is too tight. But there is a way to rectify this, Brett needs to start making adjustable gaffed balls. I'm willing to share the designs and secrets to making them so they work flawlessly with his cups, all I ask is that Brett email me for the information and just give the credit of design and research to RNT II. Not a bad trade to help better the working value of your product. While everyone is out to make a buck these days, I could simply say, "Buy Brett's cups and order balls from RNT II." But that is no comendable sollution, so this is why I offer the gaff technique to Brett for use with his cups. Both RNT II and Sherwood Magic offer the magic community some of the nicest cups on the market, I really hate hearing that because a ball will not function correctly that this hinders the opinion of Brett's cups. Magicians helping magicians should go beyond the Café, and that's why I would not have a problem of Brett using the adjustable gaffs. I don't believe that a performers final decision should be based on the fact that a release is difficult and sway them to another set of cups, especially when the Sherwoods are both well balanced and asthetically beautiful props. As to the tennis ball fitting issue with the Sherwoods, honestly, the cups are so pretty in design, one should use crochet final loads, but even the sizes that Brett offers don't fit for the final loads. But this too can be fixed and I'll be happy to share that as well with Brett so his final loads don't cause tipping for floating. So base your decision on what you want to accomplish with the tools you buy, do you need large loads, med loads, small loads? Are the cups attractive for all venues? Will the cups still do what they need for you years down the road? Overall you are making an investment and should not have to replace your tools of choice down the road, be smart, research, ask a lot of questions, but remember just because Performer A uses brand "X" does not mean that that the other Brand is not worthy of your purchase. It's all about what you feel comfortable performing with. Best to everyone. Jake
Licensed Steve Dusheck Manufacturer and distributor visit www.airshipmagic.com
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