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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Good News! » » Exposure in Christian Magic (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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themagiciansapprentice
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Yes,
I made a typo after typing whilst tired, it was my only day off of the week and of course I spent it in Church, practising the new routines and of course getting ICT lessons ready for today (Scratch, Tuxpaint, MS Powerpoint and Audacity) as well as checking on websites I'd written. It's Saturday now and I'm about to start my working week again here.... but on leave in four weeks.

I'll be honest and say I don't try to understand God's will when big crimes are committed .. few are bigger than the Nazis in terms of numbers. This was a big topic at a House Group seven years ago in the UK. When my friend said it the entire group stopped talking for a few minutes to take it in ..... then prayed about it.

But back to the thread, the "Do you want to know a secret?" promises to give away the secret of the Lewis Cone but totally suckers the audience. Surely that deception is part of magic. Now I'm going to have to write a Gospel Message for it or search my Duane Laflin / David Ginn / Andrew Thompson books for one.

Further, a close friend got me to teach her some tricks to show her Year 7 Special Needs Literacy class (Grade 6??) after they had done a reading/writing unit for Magic. I showed her basic moves using a change bag and colouring book -- she really wasn't impressed at how I had deceived her for the past two years. If I ever show her anything else again it will have to be something much more technically difficult eg Silvester Pitch.
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
clarissa35f
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Quote:
On 2008-05-24 00:15, themagiciansapprentice wrote:


Further, a close friend got me to teach her some tricks to show her Year 7 Special Needs Literacy class (Grade 6??) after they had done a reading/writing unit for Magic. I showed her basic moves using a change bag and colouring book -- she really wasn't impressed at how I had deceived her for the past two years. If I ever show her anything else again it will have to be something much more technically difficult eg Silvester Pitch.


I think someone once said." We keep secrets. Not so much to protect the secrets from the audience, but to protect the audience from the secrets."

There is truth in that. The average spectator emotionally wants to believe in magic. magic reaches them where their dreams are. Intellectually they KNOW it has to be some trick...but emotionally they want to believe. If they didn't why pay money to see magic?

I think that this average spectator would sincerely not want to know how magic is done. It shatters their dreams. I think we need to be most careful that when we educate about magic that the people with whom we share our secrets really want to know.

When I started learning Card magic, I was in "no man's land" knew enough to have my illusions about magic shattered, and not yet enough to help create illusions for others. This is a tricky time. I wish you well with teaching the magic Smile
“Amateurs practice until they get it right.
Professionals practice until they can’t get it wrong.” <Anonymous>
"There is no such thing as magic, there is no other way that could have been done" <Whit Haydn>
Terry Owens
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You pay money to see a show because you like being entertained, not because you believe in magic. I wouldn't give you two cents to go see a bad performer, anyone can do a trick, but not everyone can entertain.

Those coming to a "Gospel Magic Show" are not coming to hear the Gospel, they are coming to be entertained...that's why it can be an effective evangelism tool, they let down their guard and while their guard is down, we confront them with the truth of the Gospel and before they realize it they have heard the Good News of what Christ has done for them...
Dan Bernier
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Clarissa35f said, "Someone mentioned Judas. The Bible said about him, and his betraying The Lord that what he did had to come to pass..... but woe unto him through whom it came to pass.

I interpret that to mean that just because God can turn it around and use it to fulfill his will, does not excuse the person doing it. Sin is still Sin, even if God can find a way to use it for his purpose."

That was my first point I was making by using Judas.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
clarissa35f
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People that go to the Opera go to be entertained. But they still get caught up in the drama, emotionally even though intellectually they know they are seeing fiction.

And yet they cry.

A magician can be very entertaining, witty, his timing can be impeccable. But... if he is not convincing the layperson that what he is seeing is impossible. Then he is not performing magic.

There is a difference between Opera, The Symphony, The Movies, A play, A rock Concert,....and magic.

They are all entertaining, but of all of them magic has the distinction that we perform what to the lay person has to be impossible based on their knowledge and experience. We confront them with the inexplicable, and the impossible. Darwin Ortiz makes this point very clear. Yes performance is a good thing, but magicians have to do more than just perform, and entertain. A comedian can perform and entertain, A singer can perform and entertain, a musician can perform and entertain.

A magician has to perform, entertain....AND Amaze. That last part is the most important part. If everyone knows your secrets, it is a lot harder to amaze them.

Ortiz and Tamariz both say that to perform what is magic. You need to not only make sure that the spectator does not know how it was done, that is just the first and easy part. You need to make sure that the spectator cannot come up with any NON-Magical explanation for what you have done, even if those explanations are not the ones used.

If I take a coin, transfer it to my left hand, and it vanishes, to the lay person it is not magical if my sleeves are rolled down. To them it simply went up my sleeve. Even if the coin did not in fact go anywhere near my sleeve. As far as the spec is concerned that wwas not magic because it could be explained by non-magical means. The fact that the non-magical means were not the ones used is irrelevant.

So we roll up our sleeves. it does not make the actual vanish any harder, and yet suddenly..the spec sees magic. Do you think that the spec would experience magic if he knew how it was really done? By telling the spec how it is done, you rob him of the experience of the impossible, and do not replace that experience with anything. The magician chooses to be robbed of it, so that they may attain the ability to inspire amazement in others. The spec that now knows secrets has nothing like this to compensate him for his loss.

" We keep secrets, not to protect the secrets from our audience, but to protect the audience from our secrets." They don't really want to know.
“Amateurs practice until they get it right.
Professionals practice until they can’t get it wrong.” <Anonymous>
"There is no such thing as magic, there is no other way that could have been done" <Whit Haydn>
Theodore Lawton
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Well, I just got around to reading this. Great thoughts and posts.

I think we should never reveal secrets. It really isn't necessary. The patter and Scriptures we share don't need to include giving away secrets. We are entertainers too, and tricks are always better when you don't know the secret. That said, I have revealed secrets myself. I showed someone how to do a bill roll so they could use it to share the Gospel with others. Unethical? I don't think so. It's a simple trick and was more educational than just revealing a secret. I've also shared some things with my immediate family who often help me with practice and brainstorming ideas. I think this falls more into the !@#istant category.

But-

I don't think we should try to put God into a box of what He can and cannot bless. He's not a tame lion. The God we serve will bless whom He will bless and curse whom He will curse. I'm not saying throw all to the wind and lie your face off and reveal every secret to win people to the kingdom. As perviously stated; the Holy Spirit does the real work, we just share the message. But, for some interesting examples look at Rahab, who lied about the location of the spies and was blessed with life. Jacob, the con man whom God continually chose to bless in spite of major character flaws. Righteous Lot!? Anyway, I hope you get my point. While I don't think revealing secrets is necessary, and I think we should avoid it, I don't think we should say that there is no way God would ever bless someone who does that.

I mess up all the time and I'm amazed that God still chooses to bless me!

Be blessed!
Magic is the bacon in the breakfast of life.

............................................

God bless you and have a magical day
GlenD
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Well said Preston. You got what I was trying to say, I just had not gotten around to any of the examples, as you did in your post. By the way, Preston, sharing how to do an effect with a fellow magician or to someone who will use it as a tool to witness is not exposing in the sense that we are talking about here. At least I do not think so. But arbitrarily showing an entire audience how to do a trick, that is exposure.
I agree with what Clarissa said as well. Although I think the entertainment value is not necessarily trumped by the amazement level of a given performer. In magic, as in other arts, there are many styles and all can be effective. I have seen performers who were so funny or entertaining that the magic almost did not even matter. I am not saying they were poor magicians either just that they engaged the audience differently.

GlenD
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
Theodore Lawton
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That's a good point too Glen, about being entertaining. I guess you could be extremely skilled and not be very entertaining. That wouldn't be optimal. Funny thing is, God could still bless that too! I've suffered through some seriously bad music by beginning musicians, but also knew that others, including God, were blessed by it. I'm ashamed to admit how hard it is to sit through some of these performances. My heart needs work in this area; probably why these things keep happening to me! Smile


BTW-Thanks for clarifying about what exposure is.
Magic is the bacon in the breakfast of life.

............................................

God bless you and have a magical day
themagiciansapprentice
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Terry,
I notice you've got Gospel Magic as a separate entertainment (the same way as we did the Gospel according to Queen in the UK a decade ago.)What about when people are not paying to be entertained?
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
Terry Owens
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To me, I look at Gospel magic as a ministry not as a style of entertainment...
If I accept an invitation to perform for a group for free I should look at that performance just as if they had paid me. It would be sloppy evangelism to do Gospel Magic if the host was not aware that you were going to do that...if you get permission before hand, then that would be alright....or if they knew that's all you do when they booked you...then that is what they get...but you should make sure they are aware that's all you do, if that's the case. Sharing your faith after the show, as God opens the doors to do so, as you walk around and talk to individuals would be appropriate.

I did a program at a theater the other week, paid to entertain...but afterwards I made myself available to the audience after the program was over and I was able to mention that I'm a pastor and the conversation got directed down that path.
themagiciansapprentice
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Whilst not totally this Christian topic I was wondering about opinions on this phone call I took last night for a booking

A dad rang me (in Kuwait - he's a Muslim and deeply suspicious of our art) and asked me to do a show on Thursday 5th June for $100; and then sit the children down and explain it's not really magic but tricks by a skilled actor. As I already give two tricks on the commercial paper wands/magician's assistants certificates that each child gets, I agreed to it. But ever since have been wondering...

(The two beginners tricks are the broken matchstick in hanky and appearing wand from hanky. Neither of which are used commercially here.)

What do you think?
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
Terry Owens
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Nothing wrong with that...that is a common practice. I give out magic kits to all the B'day party kids at my shows...
themagiciansapprentice
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Well the dad still had misgivings. He rang me at 10am to confirm the booking, then at noon toc ancel it. Gutted.
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
clarissa35f
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Doing Magic for anyone that has very strong religious views, can be a challenge. There ARE people that because of their views will look askance at any kind of magic. It takes time for them to embrace an art form that seems to violate the laws of nature.

I am sorry that they canceled It would have been a good experience for everyone involved. A way for everyone to grow and learn different things.
“Amateurs practice until they get it right.
Professionals practice until they can’t get it wrong.” <Anonymous>
"There is no such thing as magic, there is no other way that could have been done" <Whit Haydn>
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