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Paul Rathbun Inner circle Michigan 2543 Posts |
Funsway,
Do you have a link where your ebook can be ordered?
https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/9160
Sleightly Better Magic Reviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9rkXnNp8CxftN-rxU_WcbQ |
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
I think the link is in his sig line. You'll have to copy and paste it, it's not "clickable."
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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plungerman Loyal user 287 Posts |
You are right, You should start with the fair ball going in and out, unless your routine is brief or fast. The idea is to firmly establish without saying so that the ball goes into and out of the cup. I really knew a real pro who would get busted if somone walked into the routine halfway through. "It's a +++++" they'd say. They had missed the training earlier.
Don Alan's great bit of asking them to step inside the cup gives them the memory of having seen in it if only for a laugh. Having them drop the ball in then is great cuz they go on from there visualizing what the ball looks like in the cup. They have seen all the motions and they appear to be fair. It is always work to keep this trick from being an "I gotcha" type routine; see Seinfeld's description of magic. I'm usually showing them how I do the magic (just acting, but really...) and then having them help me repeat it. They have success without knowing what's going on, very much like a day's work for many of us. When the big ones roll out then that's another lesson. P |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts |
Naturally, this makes a lot of sense. However, I don't think that it really makes a lot of sense to have a specially constructed cup that allows you to do this with the gaff.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts |
Listen to Bill. I have experimented with 'off center' gaffs that do allow for some special moves, but the power of the Pattern of Performance of visibly seeing the ball roll out several times during the routine is vital IMHO. This can easily be achieve by introducing an additonal ball into the cup occasionally, leaving the one nestled away while visibly pouring and transfering the other to the pocket or vanishing it.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Tom G Inner circle 2895 Posts |
David Roth was telling me a story about doing the chop cup. He was in the middle of the routine, performing for a number of people, a lady was walking by. She said it looked like a magnet and kept on walking. He thought it was her seeing it out of context that gave it away.
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marty.sasaki Inner circle 1117 Posts |
You can have the cup inspected, if you need to do that, well ahead of it's use in a chop cup routine. You can use it in a coins to cup, or for dice stacking, or something else. Leave the cup in plain sight, then do the chop cup routine.
Marty Sasaki
Arlington, Massachusetts, USA Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind. |
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spcarlson Veteran user Minneapolis MN 369 Posts |
Hey Paul, it sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the routine and it’s workings but for the sake of others new to this routine Harry Murphy made an important comment early in this thread; make sure the ‘put down’ does not have to be hard, that is critical to the smooth working of the effect. Just take a little time to experiment with cup and ball combinations to get the right feel and pressure. With so many heavier ball products out now there are some good options.
Bottom line… you want to avoid the “slam-the-cup-down” technique ;o) |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts |
Much of this depends on what combination of cup, ball and surface you are using.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Paul Rathbun Inner circle Michigan 2543 Posts |
Spcarlson,
I know what you mean about the heavy put down. I have mine adjusted to be very light. I never have agreed with Don Alan in his theory of slamming the cup really hard. And boy does he ever slam the cup hard.
https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/9160
Sleightly Better Magic Reviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9rkXnNp8CxftN-rxU_WcbQ |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
This is why I quit using a chop cup. There are many better ways.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-15 13:28, Paul Rathbun wrote: Don slammed the cup as misdirection for the loads. He didn't slam the cup at any other time in the routine. The theory wasn't Don's - it was Ed Marlo's. I do agree that the cup and the ball have to be well matched, which is why I prefer an adjustable ball. |
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Paul Rathbun Inner circle Michigan 2543 Posts |
Alan,
I agree with you that the cup and ball should be well matched. I also use an adjustable ball. I kind of disagree with you about Don slamming the cup. He would slam the cup hard, then immediately drop it down below the edge of the table and load it. I believe he said he did it so everyone was paying attention. Kind of the opposite of misdirection. I have the dvd where he teaches his routine. I'll have to go back and watch it to make sure but that is what I remember.
https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/9160
Sleightly Better Magic Reviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9rkXnNp8CxftN-rxU_WcbQ |
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Al Kazam the Magic Man Inner circle Living in Perth Western Australia 1042 Posts |
Hope this is OK to ask. Which adjustable balls are most of you using? I've had trouble before with some balls being very hard to dislodge. I ended up digging in to them to find the M****t and then slowly started chopping it smaller until it was a nice hold and easy dislodging. Was a pain to get to that point though.
Magic guy in Perth Australia
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Paul Rathbun Inner circle Michigan 2543 Posts |
RNT2 makes their balls adjustable.
https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/9160
Sleightly Better Magic Reviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9rkXnNp8CxftN-rxU_WcbQ |
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Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-22 13:08, Paul Rathbun wrote: I used to have a Don Alan tape. I currently have the booklet on Don Alan's Chop Cup routine. The idea behind the slamming was to keep people from having to look at the cup, because they could hear it hit the table - they figured, apparently, that it stayed on the table. Misdirection is really a lousy term, because it's also used to describe a directing of attention. I don't use the slamming of the cup, because it really doesn't work for how I present it. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts |
Morrissey balls are also adjustable.
BTW, Don slammed the cup on the table to make the spectators blink.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Al Kazam the Magic Man Inner circle Living in Perth Western Australia 1042 Posts |
I adjusted my Morrissey balls by pushing out the inside metal part and cutting it down to size until it worked to my liking. It seemed like a ferrous type metal that was easy enough to just clip a little bit at a time off the end until it worked they way I wanted it to.
I've just received 2 knitted balls from RNT. They stick very tightly to my other new Al Wheatley chop cup. I almost need a crowbar to get them to dislodge. I've found the stainless steel looking pin and when I pushed it in a bit it to get the ball to a more workable state the other end of the pin is sticking out through the other end of the ball. I'm thinking to either use a grinder to grind down the end of just try and cut it off with some pliers. The problem is the pin is not exactly in the center of the ball, but rather a bit off center taking away any way to have some space for movement of the pin in and out. It's funny as I've got a JP Chop cup and the gimmick on that one is just absolutely perfect for my working style. JoJo Posted: Aug 24, 2009 11:06am Well, I just took a pair of pliers to the pin and bingo, it is very soft actually. I've clipped only a very small part of and now it's working a treat. I'm so very glad. JoJo
Magic guy in Perth Australia
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
I had to do the same thing with mine. The "pin" (a m&^%$t)wasn't soft, but it was very brittle. I couldn't "cut" it but I was able to break off a chunk and then reinsert it in the ball to get the strength I needed.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
That's why I quit doing chop cup and created the Cocktail Surprise method. Cup is not gaffed. See it at http://www.porperoriginals.com Am hoping to produce a lower cost version.
Here's a direct link: http://www.porperoriginals.com/misc_cocktail.htm
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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