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DStachowiak
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I think the customer probably felt that your fee was included in whatever he paid the booking agent.
I agree with the comments above, if you want more money, charge more.
I used to do wedding photography, and one thing I learned, it's never a good policy to lowball to get business. The less you charge, the less respect you get.
Charge enough to make it worth your time. If you lose a few cheap gigs, so what? Make it up on the ones you charge your proper rate for.
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JRob
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 16:27, Justin Style wrote:


You show up at my gig, do a good job, I give you a tip. EOS.



I think this is the operative point. If you contract me to do something and the fee is set in the contract then I have no expectation of receiving anything else. If you liked my work to the point you are willing to give me extra that is a gratuity, aka a tip. It is totally voluntary on your part. It is not something I required, expected or contracted for. If I make it a condition of my performance then it becomes something more of a surcharge than a tip.
Semantics? Perhaps, but in dealing with contractual matters (and customer relations) the devil is always in the wording. I don't know that it is wrong per se to expect a tip, but generally not a good idea to make an issue of it if you don't get one.
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Dannydoyle
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Charge what you expect, and will not be disapointed. Many will feel as if they bill is paid, and they are done. A restaurant owner does not tip the meat guy.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Justin Style
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 17:02, DStachowiak wrote:
I think the customer probably felt that your fee was included in whatever he paid the booking agent.
I agree with the comments above, if you want more money, charge more.
I used to do wedding photography, and one thing I learned, it's never a good policy to lowball to get business. The less you charge, the less respect you get.
Charge enough to make it worth your time. If you lose a few cheap gigs, so what? Make it up on the ones you charge your proper rate for.


It was NOT a cheap gig. I NEVER low ball to get a show. I will pass a show up If they don't want to pay my fee. I don't need to work just for the sake of doing a gig. I'd rather be out on my bicycle.

Thanks for the feedback.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Justin, if no one else understands your disappointment, I do. I don't think you are claiming that the party had a contractual or moral obligation to tip you, you simply found yourself expecting that they would. Anyone whose ever been a waiter or waitress knows this feeling.

Chin up. I doubt that any slight was intended.

John
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The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
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Justin Style
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 17:04, JRob wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-04-21 16:27, Justin Style wrote:


You show up at my gig, do a good job, I give you a tip. EOS.



I don't know that it is wrong per se to expect a tip, but generally not a good idea to make an issue of it if you don't get one.


Thanks Jrob...but please, I didn't make an issue. I collected my stuff said goodbye and got on my way. I'm not upset, or angry in any way. I'm just relating.
Justin Style
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 17:28, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Justin, if no one else understands your disappointment, I do. I don't think you are claiming that the party had a contractual or moral obligation to tip you, you simply found yourself expecting that they would. Anyone whose ever been a waiter or waitress knows this feeling.

Chin up. I doubt that any slight was intended.

John



Thanks John!

:cheers:
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 12:38, Justin Style wrote:
I was a little miffed on the drive home.

Why no tip?

When I perform for corporations I don't expect a tip. (Even though it does happen from time to time.) But when I perform at a private event, I EXPECT a tip.

I did a great job. Arrived early and stayed a little longer (about 20 minutes) I was well groomed, clean-shaven, polite, friendly, professional, and everyone was very complimentary.

So again, why no tip?

It makes me feel like I didn't do a good job.


Maybe this is what makes you seem angry and "miffed"?
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magicgeorge
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 12:38, Justin Style wrote:
So again, why no tip?

It makes me feel like I didn't do a good job.


I think that quite often the tip doesn't relate to how good a job you did. OK sometimes you might do such a good job that they decide to tip on the spur of the moment or if someone was absolutely awful they might decide not to give them the tip they had planned but I think that in most cases whether or not they tip was decided before you got there.

George
nucinud
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 13:43, Lyndel wrote:
I never EXPECT a tip... but I graciously accept them when offered.


Lyndel


I agree. Some people don't know what to do. A tip is nice but you can't count on it.

I know some clients that have begged to get a 10% to 20% discount just so they could tack it back on as a tip. That slightly baffles me.
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TomKMagic
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 13:52, Justin Style wrote:
I'm from New York City...Tipping is a way of life, it's the norm.


Tipping is also a way of life last time I visited Mexico... hehe

Here's a good tip: never play leapfrog with a unicorn.

So Justin, if you were to do as some of the others have suggested and just charge more, would you then still expect a tip?
You must be smarter than the tools you are using...

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elmago
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 16:27, Justin Style wrote:

TIP Means: To Insure Promptness.



Yes. It was a Eurpoean thing. This was during the time when a tip was given BEFORE the job. A waiter would decide what type of service he/ she would give you depending on the size of your tip. You would tip big in the beginning To Insure Promptness.

Some how, the whole thing got reversed. Does anyone know when this happened? (assuming you believe the above to be correct)

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balducci
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 21:32, elmago wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-04-21 16:27, Justin Style wrote:

TIP Means: To Insure Promptness.



Yes. It was a Eurpoean thing. This was during the time when a tip was given BEFORE the job. A waiter would decide what type of service he/ she would give you depending on the size of your tip. You would tip big in the beginning To Insure Promptness.

Some how, the whole thing got reversed. Does anyone know when this happened? (assuming you believe the above to be correct)

Snopes, at least, disagrees:

http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.asp

I can't cut and paste from that page, but near the end it explains the origin of the word 'tip'.
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nucinud
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Shall we change the word to Gratuity?
"We are what we pretend to be" Kurt Vonnegut, jr.



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nums
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http://www.dictionary.com defines "tip" as

tip
A small sum of money given to someone for performing a service; a gratuity.

which leads us to "gratuity which is defined as

gratuity
1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
2. something given without claim or demand.

To me expecting a tip means your are not charging enough for your services, at least in your mind. If you want more money, charge more and then if you unexpectantly get a tip then good. If you see a decrease in bookings then you are not worth what you think you are.

As a side note I sent a customer a contract and she paid the amount in full but included the deposit amount along with the show price. I called he and let her know of her misteak and let her pay me the day of. I thought since I had saved her $85.00 by not cashing her check that she would have passed a few scheckles my way, but alas no tip came my way.

NUMS
leapinglizards
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Just a late two cents here (Does THAT count as a Tip?)

I would never "expect" a tip. I negotiate a fee, I charge what I think I am worth. If I give what I agree to give for that fee. (Showing up on time, not smelling, etc are all part of the minimum that can be expected.)

If I get there and I am asked to stay longer, that is already covered in the contract and at what rate. If I get there and they say "my mother is 80 and she LOVES a man in a flamingo hat... would you PLEASE wear the flamingo hat and flirt with Mom." and I say "Sure." THEN I might, in the back of my mind anticipate a tip, or at least a big "THANKS YOU MADE MOM's NIGHT!" but I still wouldn't expect it.

But, as Devil's advocate, I am willing to say, maybe, in NYC tipping is more usual. Well, then put that in your contract. "My fee is $375 an hour, plus any additional gratuity you feel is appropriate for a job extra wll done.... " That would plant the seed. It MIGHT be a bit crass, but then again, it might just be seen as smart business.

Dean
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LobowolfXXX
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I think that tipping makes sense in price-competitive businesses (like restaurants) and/or at jobs where employers can't really afford to pay a living wage (or are strongly disinclined to do so, because the work is such that the workers are replaceable), but employers want good (experienced) employees, though the employees wouldn't stay for minimum wage.

For instance, if I'm a restaurateur, I want experienced, dependable wait staff, but I'm not going to pay $12 an hour, because it's a job that most people can do. Tips generally make up a discrepancy between the quality or nature of work and the amount that the employer will pay for a position.

When the employee is setting his/her own wage, then I think that generally tips are less "fitting."

Also, most people have experience with a bunch of different food servers (or delivery drivers, or insert-your-favorite-usually tipped-job here), and so standout service really DOES stand out. Most people have very limited experience hiring a magician, so a "good" performance, though impressive, doesn't necessarily stand out as much. I think this is generally good for the art/profession. I'd like to HOPE that people don't have as many bad magician experiences as they do bad waiter/waitress experiences. When you're paying as much as working magicians charge (insert your fee here), a solid professional experience should be a given.
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irossall
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 16:27, Justin Style wrote:

McDonald's is a different business. WE ARE in the service business.



Serving the public at a fast food joint like McDonald's is not a service?

I never could understand why it is expected to tip a waiter or waitress in a sit down place while it is not expected to tip someone who works behind the counter (unless it is a Baristo).
I have worked as a bus boy in a few restaurants and have worked as hard as the waitress but I am lucky if the waitress gives me $5.00 at the end of the shift and I am the one clearing and cleaning the tables so more customers can sit down and I am the one bringing the water, coffee, extra silverware and cleaning up the mess when the customer (or waitress) has an accident and spills something.
The servers (and cooks) at the fast food places are stuffing your bags with food, napkins, toys and cleaning up the spills that the messy public makes and cleaning the floors and tables and very often the restrooms but they very rarely get tipped.
Go Figure.
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abc
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I don't really want to discuss whether you should accept or expect tips.
My only contribution to this thread would be that tip does not derive from To Ensure Promptness. It developed the other way around. To Ensure Promptness was derived from the word tip.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2008-04-22 00:31, irossall wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-04-21 16:27, Justin Style wrote:

McDonald's is a different business. WE ARE in the service business.



Serving the public at a fast food joint like McDonald's is not a service?

I never could understand why it is expected to tip a waiter or waitress in a sit down place while it is not expected to tip someone who works behind the counter (unless it is a Baristo).
I have worked as a bus boy in a few restaurants and have worked as hard as the waitress but I am lucky if the waitress gives me $5.00 at the end of the shift and I am the one clearing and cleaning the tables so more customers can sit down and I am the one bringing the water, coffee, extra silverware and cleaning up the mess when the customer (or waitress) has an accident and spills something.
The servers (and cooks) at the fast food places are stuffing your bags with food, napkins, toys and cleaning up the spills that the messy public makes and cleaning the floors and tables and very often the restrooms but they very rarely get tipped.
Go Figure.
Iven Smile


For a great rant re: "tip-worthy" jobs, check out Mr. Pink (Steve Buscemi) toward the beginning of Reservoir Dogs.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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