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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » I Expect a Tip...am I wrong? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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rossmacrae
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By the way, though I still think that (a) waiters ought to receive a living wage entirely aside from gratuities, and (b) in any profession 'hustling for tips' is just plain low, I have certainly experienced service that is well worthy of extra pay.

If you want to get more tips, do your best to earn them.
Solitaire
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Justin, maybe the ppl who booked you thought that all feew were settled properly so they did not think about tipping you, because it did not occur to them. Giving tips is a bit different in Germany than in the US and I can only speak from my experiences: when I do card readings, etc for ppl, I never expect a tip because I charge ppl with my fees (but I often get one).

Maybe the folks don't want to tip because they think that the prepaid amount includes it or they don't want to belittle you (there are ppl who could feel offended by a tip) or ppl are a Scrooge. You won't change them.
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2008-04-22 04:59, Solitaire wrote:
Giving tips is a bit different in Germany than in the US


Last Saturday I asked the pizza delivery guy if he usually gets tips. (I had given him about one Euro, and he acted surprised, so I thought it convenient to ask.)

He said most people don't tip at all, but some round up a few cents, as in from 6.95 to 7.00.

But being an American, I always tip the pizza guy, and I would have tipped Justin, too. I grew up thinking you tip almost everybody. (Of course, I lived in Taiwan until I was 12...so my "Americanness" in this regard is questionable.) It seems to me this is a cultural thing that might widely differ from region to region within the US.

Now, if a dozen NYC magicians told Justin his expectations are unreasonable, I might think his expectations are unreasonable. Otherwise maybe he was indeed being dissed. (Why didn't the owner speak to him? I have never done a music gig where the owner didn't talk to me both before and after the show. I have never done a magic gig.)
Solitaire
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I think it is indeed strange that the person who book Justin did not talk to him, normally a talk is a good way for booking follow-ups or it will make other ppl interested in what you do and you will have the possibility to hand out some more business cards.
irossall
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LobowolfXXX Wrote:
"For a great rant re: "tip-worthy" jobs, check out Mr. Pink (Steve Buscemi) toward the beginning of Reservoir Dogs."

I was actually thinking of that scene when writing my post. Great Movie.
But in that particular case, Mr. Pink was being a tight wad due to the fact that his coffee was being paid for by his boss.

I do understand that paying food service people the proper and fair wage that they deserve would mean higher prices on the menu and as a result I am sure there would be a considerable loss of business (and jobs).
Iven Smile
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
Solitaire
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@stoneunhinged: I usually tip the pizza delivery guy also with a Euro, same goes for my hairdresser (unless it is shortly before Xmas, then I usually tip 2 euros), in a café I either tip 50 Cents or 1 Euro (depending of the service I got, if it was no service at all, I don't give a tip), at my local Chinese food take away I leave a few cents in the plate they have next to their cash register thingy. Sames goes for busking performances: a few cents or a euro.

When I worked as a secretary and there were dinners out of office, I usually managed to convince my bosses to tip the waiter/waitress 10 Euros each (for good service).
gsidhe
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I don't think Justin should charge more to make up for the lost tip.
I don't think that the concern about the tip is the money.
New York's service industry is very tip driven, and as Justin stated, he tips everyone.
In an area like that, where the only time you don't tip someone providing a service is if you are very displeased, I can see how he might apply that to himself and think "If they didn't tip, I must not have done as well as I thought."

Justin- Relax.
The the fellow who booked you didn't see you after the show?
Maybe he had a phone call or his cat was stuck in the garbage disposal.
You don't know.
Maybe he was from the midwest and thinks that only waitresses get tipped.
You don't know.
Don't take it personally.
Gwyd
DStachowiak
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Reading through this thread again, I get the feeling that this isn't as much about the money as it is about the customary token of appreciation that tipping represents, at least in Justin's region.

Justin has said that he was paid a satisfactory fee, and that he doesn't feel that he charged too little. I think some here (myself included) thought he was complaining about his compensation. Evidently this was not the case. Justin I see now that your point was that in your area, tipping is a social convention and that you just felt that this was a slight on the part of the event host.

Don
Woke up.
Fell out of bed.
Dragged a comb across m' head.
Josh Riel
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In my experience, the people I should expect the least from; are the people I have done the most for.

It never fails, never in the last 17 years of my working life. Boss's, friend's, employers, employees, girlfriends..... If I give them what I should and no more, they appreciate me & my time.

If I do more than what is expected, they suddenly devalue everything. You can watch the change in their eyes.

Let's say you charge $100.00 an hour. You work an hour and a half, and to be nice just charge for an hour. You just told them you were worth $66.66 an hour. On top of that everyone else who does what you do is also worth $66.66 an hour.

People suck. And people who trust in others generosity and humanity are really suckers!

I think Justin is just talking about the outward display of respect that was missing. I don't think getting a tip is a show of respect at all. more than any other profession I can think of, waitresses are the most likely to be treated like animals. Why? Because the industry decided their value was the barest minimum, and everyone picks up on that and determines their human value with it.

Forget tips, forget respect. Do your job, get paid. That's what people want from you in the first place. To do your job and get paid and then leave.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Justin Style
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Wow!

You guys are all making great points!!! I really do appreciate the feedback. THANK YOU!

Yes it is true I made my fee. The issue is NOT the fee...the fee could be $0. or $100,000. It's the fact of the show of good faith, (New York speak:) "Hey here you go, thanks."

Here is a typical scene in NYC. We (you and me) go out for a night of dinner and drinks, maybe see a show. First. We grab a cab, tip the driver. Arrive at the location (Sometimes the doorman will open your cab door, but let's skip that part because it doesn't always happen.) We get out of the cab to enter the Resturant/club, tip the doorman. Check our coat, tip the coat check. Host/Hostess/Métier D shows us to table, another tip. Everybody gets a tip.

I will give him the benefit of the doubt; maybe he had to run out for some reason? You know, you do a good job and hear it from everybody, but sometimes you need to hear it from the person who hires you. When I’m performing and people are all excited and saying how much fun they are having, I thank them but am sure to tell them to let the person who hired me know.

So, thanks a lot, again. I have a lot of learning and growth to do, I'm not perfect, I'm a sensitive soul. I make mistakes daily, but I try to learn from them. I ask for humility when I pray, I also ask for patience. But I also ask God to help others before me.

I never meant to get anyone upset or angry with me. I appreciate the exchange of free and fair information and ideas, an open dialogue with like-minded people. Magicians helping Magicians.
pokerplayer269
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 16:51, Justin Style wrote:

On the other hand; what if you and I ate at the restaurant, had a great meal and left without a tip? Should the waitperson be happy with that? After all, they get paid for doing their job.


Waiters and Waitresses are completely different than entertainers. Their pay comes almost entirely from tips. So if they don't get tipped, they don't get paid. Even if the waiter does a crappy job, you are still supposed to tip them. An entertainer on the other hand gets paid whatever he or she feels like charging. You said that being tipped shows their appreciation. Well if you saw them having a good time and you think you did a great job, then I think it can be implied that the guests and owner appreciated your services.
Lambertmoon
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You definitely should call they guy and get feedback on how the show went. Not because of the tip, just to validate that your work was acceptable and appreciated. Sort of an exit interview.

Do you know of any other functions he has done where he did tip the entertainment? He might not be aware of the protocol or might feel it is unwarranted. In any case, it's not reflective of the job you did, which is most important.

It is true that New Yorkers tend to tip everyone. Frank Sinatra was always celebrated as one of the greatest tippers. He carried a wad of hundreds with him just for tipping. I always get a laugh at this story:

One of the most fabulous, famous tippers of all time was Frank Sinatra. One night Frank came out of the Peninsula Hotel and he walks up to the lead parking attendant and he says, "What was the biggest tip you ever got?" And the attendant says "$100, Mr. Sinatra." Then Frank goes and gives him $200. Then he asks: "Who gave you the $100 tip?" The parking attendant responded, "It was you, Mr. Sinatra."
calamari
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I gotta tip for you, wear something colorfull and easy to see when you ride that bike around NY. (health nazi)
"I came, I saw, SHE conquered." (The original Latin seems to have been garbled.)
Justin Style
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Quote:
On 2008-04-22 12:54, Lambertmoon wrote:
You definitely should call they guy and get feedback on how the show went. Not because of the tip, just to validate that your work was acceptable and appreciated. Sort of an exit interview.

Do you know of any other functions he has done where he did tip the entertainment? He might not be aware of the protocol or might feel it is unwarranted. In any case, it's not reflective of the job you did, which is most important.

It is true that New Yorkers tend to tip everyone. Frank Sinatra was always celebrated as one of the greatest tippers. He carried a wad of hundreds with him just for tipping. I always get a laugh at this story:

One of the most fabulous, famous tippers of all time was Frank Sinatra. One night Frank came out of the Peninsula Hotel and he walks up to the lead parking attendant and he says, "What was the biggest tip you ever got?" And the attendant says "$100, Mr. Sinatra." Then Frank goes and gives him $200. Then he asks: "Who gave you the $100 tip?" The parking attendant responded, "It was you, Mr. Sinatra."


Okay, thanks!

2 things.

1) I won't call him, but I WILL call the agency to see what they heard. Good idea!

2) Born in Jersey City, raised and grew up in HOBOKEN! So now it all makes sense!!! It's in my cultural genes! I don't have a pocket full of hundreds but I am a BIG tipper...lol! Wow, good one! Give me a call when you come around, I’ll take you on a tour of all Frank’s haunts.

BTW, I just came back from getting my hair cut. $18.00, the owner cuts my hair. I gave him a $7.00 tip. Too much? not enough?

I am a firm believer in over tipping. Why? Because at this stage I have all my places set up. Where I eat, get my hair cut, suits tailored, dry cleaning, food delivery places, etc. When I patronize those, I make sure to leave a fat tip. I don't care if they remember me, but I guarantee they will always remember the big tip. I'm an easy customer, spend dough, do my thing and get outta there. A few visits of that is all it takes, after that they're jumping through hoops.


And Calamari, I have all the reflectors, lights and luminated clothing, for night rides! Here's 2 bucks, you're a good kid. Now, go get me some Cannolis! (Almost felt like Frank there!)

hey now...
Lambertmoon
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Quote:
2) Born in Jersey City, raised and grew up in HOBOKEN! So now it all makes sense!!! It's in my cultural genes! I don't have a pocket full of hundreds but I am a BIG tipper...lol! Wow, good one! Give me a call when you come around, I’ll take you on a tour of all Frank’s haunts.

BTW, I just came back from getting my hair cut. $18.00, the owner cuts my hair. I gave him a $7.00 tip. Too much? not enough?


hey now...


Thanks for the offer. Appreciate it. One day I might take you up on it!
Born and raised in Queens, moved upstate (along the Hudson) over 10 years ago. Did the commute into Manhattan until it was too much. I worked on 57th and 6th for 15 years and still miss it.

I hear you on the tipping. I went to an all-inclusive, no tipping resort in Jamaica and it drove me crazy that they would not accept tips for fear of losing their jobs. I got it to them anyway. My wife thought I was crazy that it bothered me.

BTW...the haircut tip is just right.
Leland Stone
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Quote:
On 2008-04-21 13:59, Justin Style wrote:
Yeah,,,but how did you feel on the drive home?


that's all I'm sayin.


I felt like a talking tool.

Unlike everyone else who was treated with at least a token amount of Holiday cheer and hospitality, I was treated like an implement that had done its job and was then put back in the toolbox. (As in Josh's post earlier, I went above and beyond my contractual obligation and was not acknowledged for doing so.) That sort of attitude is at least partly the motivation for my career change.

When I perform, some of the return on my effort is the appreciation shown by the crowd: The applause, the smiles and laughter, the recognition that I have contributed to their enjoyment of an event. From reading through this thread, it looks like the tip (whatever the word's eytomology) is simply a tangible expression of that appreciation. "Portable applause." Yeah, I like that.

Another useless anecdote: A contracting client once squeezed the very tightest deal she could get out of me, then loaded down the project with seemingly endless "special requests." Too small to trouble with a change order, and how could I say 'no' to such a sweet lil' ole lady? Time to pay up, and she presented me the cheque; "Mr. Stone, there's something VERY SPECIAL there, just for you!"

She'd written "great job!" on the memo line and drawn a happy face!!!! Smile
LobowolfXXX
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But you go to the doctor, and my guess is, you don't tip him. If you have to hire a lawyer, my guess is, you don't tip him. One thing that's different about the waiter/maitre'd/coat check person/bellhop/etc. as compared to the magician is that they're NOT self-employed. They don't have the ability to set their own compensation (at least not without buying a hotel or a restaurant).

Another is, they make A LOT less per hour than the doctor/lawyer/...magician.

You can classify jobs in various ways; I'm more inclined to tip someone who gets $8/hour from someone else than I am someone who sets his own compensation at $250/hour (or insert your favorite number here, but make it high).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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thorndyke
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While in Memphis we went on a horse drawn carriage ride. It lasted about 40 minutes and was quite nice. The one thing that bothered me was a sign facing us that was right behind the driver that stated; 'Your tip is my pay.'
So, if we had been cheapskates, this woman would have worked for nothing, and her 'employer' would have made money off of free labor.
At a restaurant in North Dakota, my friend noticed on the menu that it said a 15% gratuity was automatic on the bill. The server told us that she did not receive an hourly wage, so that was how she was paid. This strikes me as a horrible direction to take for people who, for whatever reason, do not have high skilled jobs. Are we turning them into modern slaves?
Just asking.
abc
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Well in Taiwan they add a 10% service charge and the Waiters do NOT get it. It goes to the management. Go figure. They get paid anything from 3 dollars to 7 dollars and hour and then everyone asks "why is the service so SH920 in Taiwan?"
pepka
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My thoughts on tips: Do I always tip? Yep, and fairly big too. At least 20% on a restaurant or bar tab. When I'm out seeing a band, I don't alwyas tip, but will sometimes buy a round of shots for them. But I don't throw money around like a drunken fool either. I would not tip the cable guy, my dentist, or mechanic. Again, it may be proper to do so in NY, but not where I live.

Do I like to get tips when I perform? Absolutely, but only in the right context. I believe that it's VERY tacky to hint that you want or expect a tip. I also believe it's very tacky for the specator to use that word to you. (Do you accept tips?) When I am asked that, I respond, "It's not necessary." It's even worse when they try and hold you up at the table while they dig through their wallet. Now, if they want to do the old $10 handshake, or as I prefer, the $20 handshake, that's perfect. I say thank you very much and shove it in my pocket. I will often return to the table later and if they have time give them a little something special like cups and balls or a gambling demo. When I'm doing a corporate event or cocktail party in someone's home, as long as their schedule permits, I always stick around an extra 20 min or so. This usually guarantees me a little extra in that envelope.

And the biggest tip I ever got for performing magic, 2 crisp $50s after I did about 25 minutes for a wedding rehersal dinner at our restaurant. It was not from Mr. Sinatra either.

Here's a question for the hardcore workers, what is your AVERAGE tip at one table?
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