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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Why are Morrissey cups so cheap compared to others? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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close_up_act
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Why are Morrissey cups so cheap compared to others...are they not worth the investment....in the case of cups and balls, doesn't the price determine the life of the product?...some one fill me in.... I do cups and balls with a $8 black plastic set I bought 5 years ago and they work great...i just wanted to add a bigger load and saw how inexpensive these were..
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Pete Biro
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Morrissey has had the same design for years, so the initial start up cost has been long ago absorbed. They have also made thousands of sets, wholesaling them to dealers all over the world. I would guess the Canadian dollar value had a lot to do with it for many years. They are a good standard cup and are used by thousands of magicians all over the world.
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ASW
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I dunno. But their plain aluminium chop cup, if you find a good one, is one of the best value buys in all of magic. I got mine for $30AUD years ago and have used it hundreds and hundreds of times in restaurant and banquet gigs.
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Cacoal
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I have been using the morrisey combo set for about 8 years now and they still look great and work just fine. I would certainly recommend them to anyone.
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close_up_act
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Thanks for the response fellas,,,i'll the morrissey cups on my list....


Junior
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Are those the cups with absolutely no saddle whatsoever? And pretty lightweight?
If so, I hated those cups. They never got me excited to even practice the trick.
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Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2008-04-23 01:49, Pete Biro wrote:
Morrissey has had the same design for years, so the initial start up cost has been long ago absorbed. They have also made thousands of sets, wholesaling them to dealers all over the world. I would guess the Canadian dollar value had a lot to do with it for many years. They are a good standard cup and are used by thousands of magicians all over the world.


This is not quite the complete story. Morrissey has gone through at least four major design changes, with the cups becoming more nearly cylindrical over the years. In order to keep with the rising cost of copper, they have used thinner material, as well.

Since about 1975, they have not used a rolled lip for their cups, but have used a folded lip. This is easier to make and saves man-hours of labor.

I don't know whether they use computerized spinning or not. That makes cups much less expensive. One similar example would be the Harries Bosco cups. Those are computer spun, according to Tim Star.

I don't have any complaints about the quality of Morrissey's work. It's decent. I have never purchased a cup directly from them that was dirty on the inside or which was inherently defective. They did have a run of combo sets a while back that used a large "button" inside instead of spinning the gaff in. They discontinued those, though.

Their standard chop cup is okay. It's what I would call a "middle of the pack" chop cup.

A lot of the price of a cup depends on how much material is purchased at once. If you want to understand the difference between the copper that "spot" is quoted on in the metals market, and sheet copper, which is what cup manufacturers use to make the cups, Google "sheet copper" and look at the cost for a sheet of the material.

Then look at the difference between purchasing a single sheet of copper and 100 sheets. And look at the difference between .030" copper sheet and .050" copper sheet. I don't' know what Morrissey is currently using. But there is a point at which you cannot go any thinner.

A sheet of copper 48" x 96" will yield about 50 cup blanks for a standard height cup.

What I'm saying here is this: if there is a Morrissey cup you have your eye on, and you want to pay the current price, don't put it on your list. Order it now. Copper, like all other materials, is constantly on the rise. A set of cups that sells for $40 this month may sell for $50, $60 or even more next month.
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Mad Jake
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Morrissey stepped up the gauge of copper on their chop cups they're using 040. Generally cups are made from either 040 or 050. 030 is very thin after you are done spinning it.

With the rising costs of copper almost on a weekly basis still, sometimes daily it makes it impossible to gauge job costs unless you buy in bulk, (2 tons or more)
Nearly all the cups RNT II makes now are 065 +/- 001. The cost jump from 050 to 065 is considerable.

With the cost of fuel on the rise, a lot of companys are adding an additional tailgate fee (delivery) which adds to the cost of the copper and the final product. Misfires in small shops such as ours, Riser or any other small shop really puts a dent in the cost.

Morrissey's cups 8 years ago were far superior in quality and design as those available today. The difference in night and day between the two. They're chop cups still are great worker cups.

If you look at cups coming out of India, China and the likes, not much engineering or thought has gone into them and they are generally just mass produced with the expectations of nothing more than a cheap sale.

On the other hand, cups like Riser, RNTII, Sherwood have all been carefully researched for functionality, engineering and longevity as a professional workers tool. Quality and functionality is the primary concern when producing a professional set of working cups or chop cup, or actually any quality apparatus that a performer will use as his/her tool to make a living.

A peformer is generally concerned with how well a product will function for their needs and the asthetics to their performance surroundings. I do a gig at a country club for 2 weeks every summer. I wouldn't dare go in there with Morrissey cups, I use Sherwood Silver Engraved cups because it fits the clientel, but that doesn't make them the cups everyone should use for everyday performances.

If you're just getting started out in the C&B try the Bizare DiMagia cups <--Sp??
Dollare for dollar they're a good value cup to start with. Don't rule out Morrissey for a chop cup, while there have been some complaints about dead gaffs and issues, that can happen with any manufacturer, even the professionals. One thing I can say about Morrissey, they don't hassle about replacing a defective product or something you're not happy with.

Jake
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Bill Palmer
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When I had the Laurie Ireland Copper Commemmorative cups spun, they were done by Morrissey, who has the blocks for the cups. They did a really good job on them.

I have no complaint about their work at all.

However, I'll point out that they were not cheap cups.
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Pete Biro
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Bill: They were indeed very nice. My spinner is used to the highest quality controls as their main business is high-end aircraft parts. They do the cups for me as a favor, the boss likes magic.
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That certainly helps!

BTW, if you remember the name "Burtini," he spun cups for Davenport's and Harry Stanley, as well as for himself. He worked for the Royal Mint, but during WW II, he was a machinist for the RAF.
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SpellbinderEntertainment
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In my opinion the Morrissey cups are good for beginning magicians or young magicians on a tight budget, but they are quite lightweight to handle with authority, and I don’t feel their design is as careful or deceptive as it could be.

With the great cups still available these days, if you’re serious about cups and balls, or think you might become serious about the effect, I’d get something at least a step above these.

“Functional” is the best I can say about Morrissey cups today, but a big step above using plastic “adams” cups.

I’d also say, consider a Rings ‘N Things II designs before the company vanishes into the ethers of the magical past once again!

My two-cents.
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You know how many Lota Bowls and Dove Pans Morrissey sell!?!?!?!?!
A LOT!
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James Alan
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The reason they're so cheap is simply because of the volume. From what I understand Morrissey's and Johnson Products are the only manufacturers do not make cups in limited runs.

They offer fantastic value for money. Whether or not you think they're good cups is personal preference. Their design makes some moves and sequences easier and others harder.
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Bill Palmer
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What do you mean "Morrissey's and Johnson Products are the only manufacturers do not make cups in limited runs"?

Runs at both of these companies are limited by material on hand. What about the Johnson copper cups? That was a run of 26 sets.
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walid ahumada
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Quote:
On 2008-04-23 01:49, Pete Biro wrote:
Morrissey has had the same design for years, so the initial start up cost has been long ago absorbed.


Brett Sherwood has had the same design also, however his cups are not cheap.
it is just a matter of metal quality.
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Bill Palmer
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Not so, Walid.

Brett's design is less than 10 years old. He also is not a machinist (as far as I know) so he had to have someone make the blocks for him, and has to pay a spinner. It costs a lot of money to get a set of blocks made correctly for a cup.

Morrissey does all their own work in house, so they don't have to pay a third party to make the blocks and spin the cups. This is a huge savings in the end product.

It's not "just a matter of metal quality." The metal that Morrissey uses is good. It's not quite as thick as the metal Brett uses. And Morrissey currently only works with aluminum and copper. No silver and no brass. Brass is much harder to spin than copper or aluminum.
"The Swatter"

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MickeyPainless
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I had a long conversation with Jake some time back and he gave me a general run down of what is entailed in making a cup...... Just the polishing process is more than I would want to do!
I do know from experience what is involved in turning a cup from wood and I wouldn't and couldn't do it for what an inexpensive set of metal cups cost!
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One of the things you learn when you have shelf upon shelf of cups and a mentor who knows a bit about metal spinning is what to look for inside a cup to tell you things about the outside of it.

For example, you can sometimes spot the grain of the wood of the block that was used to spin a cup where it has imprinted upon the inside of the cup, if the metal is a soft one, such as aluminum.
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MickeyPainless
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I have one set of cups that look pretty good on the outside but I must now assume that the block they were spun on were made from railroad tie since the interior looks like it's covered in creosote! Smile
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