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CloaknDagger New user New Zealand 13 Posts |
I'll start this post with a disclaimer - I know very little about hypnosis - I'm more into conjuring, however I have a couple of questions...
I have been rereading Derren Brown's 'Tricks Of The Mind' recently and am intrigued by his anecdote of deflating an aggresive drunk by confusing him with suggestive language. He then mentions a script that would supposedly stick an opponent's feet to the ground to allow for a hasty getaway. First question: Can this be done? Second: Has anyone here actually done this? |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
You mean is it possible to confuse a drunk?
Yes. Stick his feet to the ground against his will? Doubtfull.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Harry Lucas Regular user Europe 128 Posts |
Not against his will. But if he is in the right suggestive state it can be done.
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Nongard1 Special user 664 Posts |
Terry Stokes sticks peoples feet to teh ground in every show. seen John Cerbone do it as a finale as they exit the stage on many occasions...
But, they were in a show and WANTED to have fun. A guy chasing you wants to chase not have stuck feet. And so I'm with Danny on both answers.
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis |
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WillBox Regular user 146 Posts |
Don't forget that Derren talks huge levels of guff. His interviews are riddled with nonsense to try and uphold the image the public has of him.
A small minority of drunks might have the suggestibility necessary to accept such a suggestion, but I wouldnt like to try and research it any further. Drunks, especially in Britain, are a rather stupid, destructive and dangerous breed, and tend to move in packs. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Anyone who says it can be done tell me. I have a TON of cop friends from when I was a cop who seem to think it will not work.
I would LOVE to see the claim backed up. LOL.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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CloaknDagger New user New Zealand 13 Posts |
Willbox, I'm in no doubt that a lot of Derren's trickery is well hidden beneath a load of cobblers about NLP, unconcious communication and other such stuff.
To be fair, he does talk very sceptically about these things in his book. However, it does seem EXTREMELY irresponsible to give advice on how to defend yourself in a sticky situation by using a hypnotic script if it doesn't actually work... I can just imagine myself late on a Saturday night babbling on about how high my fences are (part of his script) while some thug's threatening me with much pain... yikes! |
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Anthony Jacquin Inner circle UK 2220 Posts |
My advice is use the how high is my fence line but half way through the sentance execute your preferred strike and make it count.
Anthony
Anthony Jacquin
Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis Updated for 2016 Now on Kindle and Audible! |
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WillBox Regular user 146 Posts |
CloaknDagger, sure, I agree its irresponsible. Similarly when he advised people to do similar 'confusion tactics' on traffic wardens etc about tickets. The factors that would have to be true for such a thing to work are so staggeringly slight that its pointless to suggest. He talked about the 4 foot high fence in the commentary to Inside Your Mind as well, and also presumably to his class of candidates in The Heist. In The Heist during the segment where the candidates are encouraged to steal from a shop (for 'the buzz', again pretty irresponsible) the shop keepers catch on fast. One guy says to the shop keeper, who is asking him why he's stealing a twix, "but my wall isn't 4 foot high". The shop keeper responds "no, and neither is mine, now give it back and get out of my shop". Confusing - yes, rooting them to the floor whilst you make a clean getaway - no, possibly invoking increased aggression as a result of the confusion - most likely.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
The only responsability Derren has is to his team and the producers of the show. And from that point of view he has been very responsable.
I can't believe anyone would actually try the above. If a drunk gets drunk enough his whole body will stick to the floor period. give him some more drink. |
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carldourish New user 88 Posts |
I remember when I used to get drunk. I would lay on the floor, and hold on in case I fell off.........
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Gork New user Germany 70 Posts |
Now just tell me what the hell should be the difference of a handshake induction over this?
It is the same! As the handshake works well on many this will too maybe but the maybe part is the one which would make me think twice in which situation I would use it. I will not work on EVERYONE but I am sure it will on some. Its both the same: confuse -> restructure! (But cou could confuse in a much more clever way than this fence stuff ) |
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briandavidphillips Regular user 121 Posts |
The TRICKS OF THE MIND book is not the whole unvarnished truth, he's still in character and not really discussing what he's really doing. This has some tidbits of use but a lot of it is simply more of the patter for his persona of the psychological manipulator and master hypnotist. Only a small part of his act is actual suggestion and even then it's usually to bolster a preset trick or set up as ambiguous enough to be an out. PURE EFFECT has a bit more of the actual craft and philosophy, albeit a bit ostentatious sometimes in presentation (and I enjoy his ideas).
Somewhere in a box, I have an old book by Kreskin where he lays out the origins and method for his own powers and while there is some obtuse explanation of muscle reading (if you're clever enough to read between the lines), it's mostly about his intense sensitivity and early psychic development. It's in character and an extension of his act. I assume you would not take a mass market discussion of psychic spoon bending by Uri Geller seriously, so take Derren's psychological discussions for mass market with a grain of salt as well. All the best, Brian
Hypnosis DVD Courses
http://www.briandavidphillips.com Brian David Phillips brian@briandavidphillips.com Hypnotist, Trance Wizard, Intuitionist Keelung, Taiwan http://www.briandavidphillips.com |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
I am forwarding this to another member on here who is a hypnotist as well as a martial arts instructor(and my brother:) I think his insight would be very good here.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Gork New user Germany 70 Posts |
Quote:
Only a small part of his act is actual suggestion and even then it's usually to bolster a preset trick or set up as ambiguous enough to be an out. Seems much people think so in this forum, I don`t cause I have much insight in the work of Erickson and therefore can easily see what he is doing without his explanation. You can do the same things he does if you understand the suggestions he gives and know how exactly he did things. Just try for yourself! Sit Down, analyse one of his scenes in very much detail for a week or such and then fit it your style and just give it a try if you are an experienced hypnotist. Then there would be no need to discuss if or if not something would work. I did. Sure there are many times when he uses magic tricks but he also uses much suggestion and in a very open manner sometimes. The only thing is he very rarely uses hypnosis with a trance induction. But he definately uses many suggestions. As all hypnotists who learned their stuff well should know, suggestion is not equal hypnosis and is very well working WITOUT any! And this is clearly what he is doing often. |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Gork, You are exactly the audience Derren seeks. As Brian stated: He's still in character when he writes (even). Never trust him, especially when he offers you a toffee.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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briandavidphillips Regular user 121 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-08-20 10:54, Gork wrote: I too know more than a little something about hypnosis. I also know that he's using the language of NLP and suggestion as dressing to an effect that he gains via other means. I am not saying he doesn't use suggestion to bolster an effect, he certainly does. However, I am absolutely certain that most of the time the effect itself is not in the trance. Go to the mentalism forum to find the effects minus the dressing. However, this does NOT mean that one cannot achieve the effects without the gaff or gimmick. That is actually a much more interesting question to me . . . not "how does he do it?" but "hmm, how can I do it with suggestion or hypnosis alone?" Yes, he does indeed have some trance-based effects, but they are actually few and far between. Despite early stage hypnosis performances and even his straight magic work, Derren Brown today belongs squarely in the tradition of mentalist, not hypnotist. All the best, Brian http://www.briandavidphillips.com
Hypnosis DVD Courses
http://www.briandavidphillips.com Brian David Phillips brian@briandavidphillips.com Hypnotist, Trance Wizard, Intuitionist Keelung, Taiwan http://www.briandavidphillips.com |
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Gork New user Germany 70 Posts |
I agree, as I said he very rarely uses trance!
BUT he uses sugestions without trance nearly all time. That's what I meant to say. so please replace "hypnosis" with "hypnosis/trance" in my last sentence. Best, Sven |
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LLL Inner circle 1574 Posts |
I'm actually a bit worried that people would want to try this. Drunks are very unpredictable. Would you really want to stand in front of an unpredictable person mumbling about fences while he's lining up his right hook just so you could get kudos from your friends? If your that worried about self defense join a class, or learn to run a bit faster.
Andy
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-08-20 23:12, briandavidphillips wrote: ....he's using the language of NLP and suggestion as dressing to an effect that he gains via other means. I am not saying he doesn't use suggestion to bolster an effect, he certainly does. However, I am absolutely certain that most of the time the effect itself is not in the trance. Go to the mentalism forum to find the effects minus the dressing. However, this does NOT mean that one cannot achieve the effects without the gaff or gimmick. That is actually a much more interesting question to me . . . not "how does he do it?" but "hmm, how can I do it with suggestion or hypnosis alone?" Yes, he does indeed have some trance-based effects, but they are actually few and far between. Despite early stage hypnosis performances and even his straight magic work, Derren Brown today belongs squarely in the tradition of mentalist, not hypnotist. [/quote] There simply cannot be anything anyone could add to this thread. The above, in my view, is the perfect post in relation to who DB is, what he does and how he does it. Thankyou Brian. bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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