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TheDean
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Nice… (NOT)

Quote:
Just for the record, Henry Ford was also a rabid anti-semite and good friend to Hitler, so I would say he had it wrong in a fundamental way.


…and THIS has what to do with the discussion at hand? How is THAT “Magician’s Helping Magician’s” or this discussion… but hey, I knew some would disagree, just not in such a way. Oh well… go figure.

How sad.

The QUOTE that is attributed to Henry Ford who it is said that he said: (As Stated MANY Times in this section of the Café.) “Whether You THINK You Can Or You THINK You Can’t… Your RIGHT.”

Certainly there are many quotes by many who express the same perspective, Napoleon Hill, Anthony Robbins, Zig Ziggler and so many others… none of whom, OURSELVES INCLUDED that ever could teach a “Walking On Water Class at the YMCA”.

Thanks for YOUR help though…

See ya.

Deano (shaking his head in dismay) in Reno
<><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success!
"Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…"

(*Marketing Doctor) Smile
Donald Dunphy
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Victoria, BC, Canada
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Quote:
On 2008-05-02 15:30, rtgreen wrote:
Think it is time for a reality check for me. I was looking at Randy Charach's book and he states the he charges $2,500 for an hour of strolling or a 30 minute standup at a corporate Christmas party and can sometimes work 3 show a night at this time of year.


Quote:
On 2008-05-04 18:59, Al Angello wrote:
Some here say that $2,500 for 30 minutes of walk around is a no brainer, and others here who know Randy personally say that he is full of baloney. I would be very interested to find out from you just how easy it is to get that $2,500 for 30 minutes of walk around magic, and to book three of those gigs for the same day would be a real trick.


How did a 30 minutes stand-up show OR an hour of strolling magic (original post on the thread) get twisted together into 30 minutes of strolling magic?

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Al Angello
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Collegeville, Pa. USA
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Donald
I don't care if it's walk around, stand up, sit down, lay down, or a stand on you head job. Changing the subject will not change the math.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Donald Dunphy
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Hi Al -

I know pros who charge more than $2000 per show, and who are workers earning a FT living. I'm not going to name names (its not my business to reveal things they have told me in confidential conversations).

I know I'm not in their league, but I acknowledge that their league exists.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
magicofCurtis
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Al,

I know a country club that paid a magician $250 and books her once a year and the country club books another magician twice a year at $2200...


However Al you are right you can't get the $2,000 rate.... and Donald is right that there are guys who can....
Just choices they have made!
Al Angello
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This is too childish good night you contrary little boys.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Donald Dunphy
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Here's the thing. And it's a common problem on many threads here.

Instead of arguing that it can't be done, or arguing that it isn't being done, or accusing people of being dishonest for reporting that it is being done, no one is focusing on the solution. They are all focused on the wrong thing (focused on them being "RIGHT").

Quit focusing on being right. Focus on the fact that you don't know, and that you genuinely want to know (want to learn).

Discovering the solution starts with asking yourself right questions.

Questions like:

- What do customers who pay that sort of fee, really want?

- How do I become the type of performer / business person that can deliver value to customers who are willing to pay that sort of fee?

- How can I develop the confidence to ask those type of prices on a consisent basis?

- What do I need to learn to rise into this league?

- What do I need to change in my marketing?

- What do I need to change in my performance style?

- What do I need to change in my thinking?

- How can I find those types of customers?

- How do I need to change myself to do this?

- Who do I need to meet and build a relationship with, to get some mentorship?

Etc.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Dannydoyle
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Actually I believe that the problem with MOST threads here is that at least some of the participants live in fantasy land. They BS their way through threads spouting slogans and BS, but people know them for what they are,and still others fall for the BS as gospel. Problem is some actually try to have real world discussions with them and it is not possible.

I have chosen to stay out of them when I see them developing.

(Mind you I speak of nobody on this thread or of this thread in spacific, but it is a problem here and it gets worse. A virtual measuring contest with nothing ever measured but words)

For me I am a guy who shows up at work, does a good enough job to be asked back and makes enough to have money left over to buy a new deck of cards every once in a while.

I am SO sick of the posing.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
magicofCurtis
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Danny wrote:
For me I am a guy who shows up at work, does a good enough job to be asked back and makes enough to have money left over to buy a new deck of cards every once in a while.


But don't you want more than an extra deck of cards? Maybe that is why you don't see the possibilities?
Neale Bacon
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When it comes to having the nerve to raise fees, I agree with Eric Anderson who lectured here a few months ago.

You can't do a big jump in fee on old customers, but with new customers, you can have a new "starting" fee.

It does take some nerve, and you will lose some shows over higher fees, but since I started doing that, I now make way more than before while working less.

I am not in the big leagues as it were, but am making more now than I have before. I am learning to be comfortable with the idea that YES - I AM worth what I am charging.

As for the Millianaire Magician and the like - I have learned as a lot of others have that a lot of what a magician SAYS he makes is a) hype b) BS or c) posing or d) all of the above.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
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NJJ
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I try to give magicians the benefit of the doubt with this stuff but it is just so hard to seperate the BS from the facts.

A few recent cases of magician's BS that annoyed me include:

1) Magician telling me he get's watches with the watch steal every single time regardless of the watch.

2) Magician telling me he had raised his kid's party price by $100 when he hadn't. I was defending him to other magicians who accused him of being too cheap and ended up looking like a jerk.

3) Magicians who are 'full time' but also work retail etc. to pay the bills.
Al Angello
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Danny is right Tricky Business has been taken over by magicians who live in fantasy land. I have had all the silly slogans I can take. I will not post here any more.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Michael Messing
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Quote:
On 2008-05-05 02:05, Nicholas J. Johnson wrote:
A few recent cases of magician's BS that annoyed me include:

3) Magicians who are 'full time' but also work retail etc. to pay the bills.


So, Nicholas, where do you draw the line at full time? (I'm just curious, not annoyed.) I make about 85% of my income in magic and I consider myself full time. I work part time (about 10 or 11 hours per week) for my best friend at his insurance office. He lets me come and go as I please and just asks that I give as much notice as possible if my schedule changes. The insurance job is handy when there are slow downs in performing. In addition, I do photography on the side because I love it - I've been into photography nearly as long as magic. (35 years in magic and 31 in photography.) I use the money to buy more photo gear.

I consider myself full time because magic is what feeds my family and pays my bills. In addition, I don't turn down any shows because of my insurance job. If I book a show when I'm scheduled to work at the insurance office, I call in and let them know I won't be available. (I can't book over a photo session, of course, or I would ruin my reputation there.)

So, do you consider me part time or full time?

Michael
chris mcbrien
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Quote:
On 2008-05-05 07:55, Al Angello wrote:
Danny is right Tricky Business has been taken over by magicians who live in fantasy land. I have had all the silly slogans I can take. I will not post here any more.


I feel for Al, I really do! The fact is is that there are too many who "hype" not only to their prospective clients (or to those they pretend to have) but also hype here as well...when talking nuts and bolts would be a lot more proactive. I think Danny had it absolutely correct with his post.
As a full-timer (and entertainment is my ONLY job, pays for a family of four, two cars and a mortgage)there are some things I will share, and some things I won't. However, I won't "BS" people here with crap that "t'aint true" and I'll give what facts I feel comfortable sharing. This business can be tough enough and having some honest commentary and facts on the "inside" of the business is what's needed to help others and ourselves.
And now, back to my marketing this morning....see, look, a "nuts and bolts" fact. Nope, not laying on the lounger "drinking my breakfast" looking at the Hollywood sign...I'm doing mailers....
Chad C.
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I also, am doing mailings this morning - fun stuff! Hi Michael, I am similar to you as well. I pastor a small church (I am there Wed nights and Sundays) but it is considered "part-time" and my "full-time" job is my magic -which brings in 90% of my income. So I consider myself full-time with magic. Of course, being in the ministry is always "full-time" even when you are part-time!

Well, back to mailings!
Chad
magicofCurtis
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Did my mailings about a week or so ago! So I think I will take Chris Mcbrien up for his drink offer! YUMMY

:)

Click here to view attached image.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-04 23:36, magicofCurtis wrote:
Danny wrote:
For me I am a guy who shows up at work, does a good enough job to be asked back and makes enough to have money left over to buy a new deck of cards every once in a while.


But don't you want more than an extra deck of cards? Maybe that is why you don't see the possibilities?


Maybe you don't understand humility and sarcasam combined together. Thanks for helping me make my point though.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mr Amazeo
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Quote:
On 2008-05-04 21:52, Donald Dunphy wrote:
Discovering the solution starts with asking yourself right questions.

Questions like:

- What do customers who pay that sort of fee, really want?

- How do I become the type of performer / business person that can deliver value to customers who are willing to pay that sort of fee?

- How can I develop the confidence to ask those type of prices on a consisent basis?

- What do I need to learn to rise into this league?

- What do I need to change in my marketing?

- What do I need to change in my performance style?

- What do I need to change in my thinking?

- How can I find those types of customers?

- How do I need to change myself to do this?

- Who do I need to meet and build a relationship with, to get some mentorship?

Etc.

- Donald


What a breath of fresh air! This is exactly right. Add in something about finding a niche and exploting it and you will make that kind of money for a show (but I'm still not sure about those walk-around rates).

The money is out there. A lot of companies create budgets for this types of things. You just have a quality show that suits a particular need. There are companies that want the $750 show and there are companies that want the $5K show. I sometimes can't believe what they spend money on - a friend of mine just got back from a 4 day cruise for a company that took 80 of their employees on a Carnival Cruise in the Bahama's. His contract was to do two 1 hour walk-around gigs during the trip. He got paid for his time and expenses plus he got the cruise. I'm still p***ed at him. But there's a prime example of they didn't blink at the contractual rate. (Hard to say if it will ever happen again, but it's one for the scrapbook)

And the really nice thing is that once you're out there filling the niche and people start to get to know you, you get a lot of work with less marketing effort.
TheDean
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WOW! I said that some would not agree, but holy cow!

Like I said... It's a mindset thing.

Hey, no one is taking away “you right to do as well or ‘not’ so well as each would like to... it’s totally up to YOU” as it has been insisted…. (or what-ever each are doing) The fact remains; whether others "believe" that success truly IS going on out there or not, “IT IS”.

Believe, don't believe; doesn’t much change the lives of any of us who ARE, in fact getting real results...

On The Other Hand; it COULD very well DOES matter (and is detrimental) to those who are NOT getting the results they say they want! (and SHOULD get as far as I’m concerned…) but sadly, are NOT getting is not a good thing! To ‘continue to ignore or dismiss the success that some ARE, in fact getting’ is NOT good for any of us.

Do we wish others would “get it”?

OF COURSE WE DO! We WANT You To Be As Successful As You Want To Be!

I am NOT here to change anyone’s mind… just sharing what works. Some belive it and others do not… too bad.

I guess I will reiterate:
= A) What real PRIZE do others win for believing in the worst possible scenario?
= B) WHY would anyone insist on believing the worst that life has to offer?
= C) What value is there in forcing a “lack” perspective on our industry?

Hey… believe, don’t believe, it’s NOT going to change what IS working for those who understand what some of us are getting at!

If I (and some of us here) desperately want amazing and phenomenal success for you is somehow maddenig or like living in some kind of 'fairy land', (Though I don't understand it...) then count me IN!

I wish that all who want to and are willing to do what it takes to have success win their dreams, desires and outcomes… I know that I have no matter if you “like me” or the things I type here to help or not. (Again, a bit confused about all the opposition to wanting your success!)

I am at your service and in HIS Service,
Deano (Really want success for YOU too!) in Reno
<><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success!
"Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…"

(*Marketing Doctor) Smile
TomBoleware
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Magic is a lot like fishing. Some like to add a few inches to the catch. Smile

Richard, to answer your question, is that the norm? While it may be normal for some, I don’t think it’s average for most. Sometimes I think the majority of magician’s fish for whatever they can catch. They simply don’t have the gear, the knowledge, or the patience to constantly go for the big one. On the other hand, some do use the right bait and gear designed especially for certain fish and they do catch the big ones often. Even if you allow for the extra inches, it’s still way above the average.

I have to agree with Dean, it’s a mindset thing more than anything.

My son, an adult, lives in a different state than I do and a couple of weeks ago he took his car to a shop for a repair. Later when he called me I asked, “why in the world did you pay six hundred dollars to get it fixed?” (Sounded more like a hundred dollar job to me.) He replied, “well dad, that’s what they charge.” He also reminded me that times have changed in the repair business, you might say they charge what they want to and there’s not much you can do about it except pay it. Out of curiosity I called around and found out that it wasn’t that bad of a deal after all. I realized my mindset about car parts hadn’t changed in twenty years.

Donald does make a good point about asking the right questions. But let me add, not only is it important to ask, it’s important to listen to the answer. Not listening can hurt.

Reminds me of this: A little old lady answered a knock on the door one day, only to be confronted by a well-dressed young man carrying a vacuum cleaner.

“Good morning,” said the young man. “If I could take a couple of minutes of your time, I would like to demonstrate the very latest in high-powered vacuum cleaners.”

“Go away,” said the old lady. “I haven't got any money, I'm broke.” As she proceeded to close the door, the young man wedged his foot in the door and pushed it wide open.

“Don't be too hasty,' he said. “Not until you have at least seen my demonstration.” And with that, he emptied a bucket of horse manure on to her hallway carpet.

“If this vacuum cleaner does not remove all traces of this horse manure from your carpet, Madam, I will personally eat the remainder.” The old lady stepped back and said, “Well I hope you've got a good appetite, because they cut off my electricity this morning.”

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
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