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rick727 Regular user Houston, TX, USA 191 Posts 
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The whole purpose of posting this in the first place was to get people to send him an e-mail and complain. Please take a minute and do so. Keep the e-mail professional (he has received some very nasty e-mails since I made my post). He has been doing this act professionally for over 12 years so he feels it is part of his reputation.
Paul Nathan: paul@firemagic.com 415-701-7285 Thanks, -Rick
Practice what you present.
Present what you practice. |
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sparks New user Charlottesville, Virginia 89 Posts
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A couple of things this guy said stood out right away (to me at least)...
Quote:
Basically, his premise is ... he feels that he is not really exposing anything even though he is showing how it is done. Say what? That's sort of like the phrase "I tell the truth except when I lie". This guys logic is amazing. Quote:
He [says he] has done this routine for 12 years professionally and he claims he always gets good reactions. Oh... he always gets good reactions... well that makes everything ok. More amazing logic. What in the heck do good reactions have to do with it being acceptable? ...just my opinion. - Tom
Sparks
It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney |
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abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts
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This is not as easy a topic as it may appear to some. I agree and disagree with Kam.
The truth is that most, not all, would indeed not remember therefore the damage is not as bad. Those that do remember with the intention of busting another performer are the same people who would search online for explanations and bust magicians. Those are also the same people that occasionally are wrong about a method yet insist they are right and expect you to prove them wrong. Those are the same people who do not see magic as entertaining and never will. The rest just want to have a good time and be entertained and the progression of the effect would make the previous explanation meaningless and thus soon forgotten. Do I think he may have crossed the line, well yes because he mentioned the names of sleights yet many gambling effects do exactly the same by mentioning the second deal. I also think that there are many people who really don't want to know and by explaining it you are shoving the explanation down there throats. It does lead into the next effect though. We like to believe that our art is still a secret but it isn't. Most people know it is only make believe. They are the ones we are trying to entertain and those are the ones that hire us. Changing Paul Nathan's show (whether he is a brilliant or average magician) is not going to change the fact that there are people who will find the information elsewhere and still be D^&*s. All the nasty e-mails in the world is not going to change that either. We are trying to change the wrong part of the problem. |
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g0thike Special user 722 Posts
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Guys,
Seriously even though you may not like what Paul Nathan is doing. He isn't exposing anything that you can't learn for FREE on the internet or buy off some magic shop on the internet. Heck my brother went to Walden Books and bought a $10.00 book on magic and he knows enough. With this line of thinking why don't we also write nasty emails to every magician that has HOW TO video's, Books, and DVD's. Also I have seen so many magicians completely blow a sleight as to expose the magic. G0THIKE |
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Jason Messina Elite user 424 Posts
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I just talked to Paul Harris and he has no recollection of telling anyone that exposing Reset for the sake of performing MacDonald's Aces was a good idea. Could it have happened....maybe as a joke, maybe not thinking someone would ever think it was a good idea, maybe thinking he meant one move, who knows.....Paul doubts he would tell anyone (even 12 years ago) that exposing every move in one of his effects was a good idea. So....
...Regardless of what was said or what anyone thought was said 12 years ago, PAUL Harris DOES NOT THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO EXPOSE RESET!!! That should settle that..... I did find a reasonable solution to the exposure though, I performed Reset tonight and no one was the wiser. It may have been because I performed and then exposed the gimmicks to MacDonald's Aces beforehand. That really throw them off the scent...... |
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kammagic Inner circle 1304 Posts
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On the topic of magicians being busted out by a spectator. I think it is a much bigger problem when you are beginning as a magician. If you don't know how to handle them then you become an enabler and they take over your performance but the more you deal with them the more you learn how to spot these people and stop them before they even start. In the last 10 years I can think of maybe 5 times I was ever hassled and they were all nipped in the bud right away. So my point is be good at what you do and these spectators will no longer be a problem. Most of the time these people are the people who are usually always getting the attention in the group so they are jealous that you are stealing it away. Your best bet is to make them part of the show make them the hero. An easy technique is to whisper a card in there ear then force that card on someone across the room then have your new friend read their mind. He's the hero and you made a new friend with no confrontation what so ever.
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1591 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-05-09 02:08, g0thike wrote: You're conflating exposure with availability. There is a lot of information available on U.S. foreign policy, but few Americans are exposed to any great deal of it. There's a real difference between being presented with information and digging for it. Quote:
Heck my brother went to Walden Books and bought a $10.00 book on magic and he knows enough. The rampant commercialization of magic is also a problem and, unfortunately, I speak as a person who has directly benefited from the easy accessibility age. It would be unseemly to argue that we should now pull up the ladder, so to speak. Besides, ought/should implies can: barring a dramatic shift in the inner culture of magic, and assuming the culture could distribute benefits and impose costs in accordance with some enlightened morality, the profit motive presents a formidable collective action problem. Quote:
Also I have seen so many magicians completely blow a sleight as to expose the magic. I think the person who made the mistake will be the first one to criticize himself. There's a rather significant difference between accidentally messing up and purposely exposing secrets.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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kammagic Inner circle 1304 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-05-09 05:44, Cain wrote: I think g0thike might be trying to say that if someone is the type of person that would bother a professional during his performance he has plenty of ways of getting his information. Just because someone exposes magic doesn't mean the people in the audience are going to go around harassing performers with this new found knowledge. Most people are polite and would never do such a thing. The people that would harass someone will do it wether someone exposed magic to them or not. These people are just natural jerks. Its not the exposing of magic that creates these people. |
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NeoMagic Inner circle I have... 2017 Posts
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I'm always being fooled by magicians who, for the most part I dare say, are using the very sleights I already know.
See and download my latest free card-suits-themed desktop wallpaper | HERE
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sparks New user Charlottesville, Virginia 89 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-05-09 02:27, Jason Messina wrote: That started my morning with a good laugh... thanks Jason. p.s. I had a feeling the Paul Harris "thing" was nothing more than bunkum. Thanks for checking it out.
Sparks
It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney |
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rick727 Regular user Houston, TX, USA 191 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-05-09 02:27, Jason Messina wrote: Jason, Thanks for commenting. But just to be fair to Paul Nathan, I want to add a slight clarification. When I said that he talked to Paul Harris to come up with the routine, what he told me is that the routine was a modified Reset (same concept, different handling) followed by an "explanation" to be done at a lightning fast paced so the audience could not truly follow along. The original routine that Paul Nathan created did not include McDonald's Aces, that came along later so I assume it was not discussed with Paul Harris. Regardless of Paul Nathan's motivation, I am glad you confirmed that Paul Harris feels exposure of Reset is bad. Quote:
I did find a reasonable solution to the exposure though, I performed Reset tonight and no one was the wiser. It may have been because I performed and then exposed the gimmicks to MacDonald's Aces beforehand. That really throw them off the scent...... I hope you are kidding. If you are not, then I hope you did it as a comedy piece exposing the gimmicks. I suppose I would rather have someone expose a single gimmick to get a laugh as opposed to a whole series of sleights. I wonder what Paul Harris would say about exposing McDonald's Aces 
Practice what you present.
Present what you practice. |
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Jason Messina Elite user 424 Posts
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I was kidding about MacDonald's Aces, a feeble attempt at irony....
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rick727 Regular user Houston, TX, USA 191 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-05-09 08:53, Jason Messina wrote: That is funny! You totally fooled me. Next time put a smiley up, I thought you were serious!
Practice what you present.
Present what you practice. |
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karbonkid Special user 951 Posts
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Eh. All the tradeshow performers I've ever seen, were below average at best.
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13426 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-05-09 02:27, Jason Messina wrote: Very funny. Yesterday I was wondering about this. How would this thread differ if we found out that whatshisname had been exposing Mac Aces for the last 12 years. Would everyone's opinions be exactly the same as they are now?
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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christiancagigal Special user SF Bay Area 624 Posts
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A very smart question.
"Besides the known and the unknown, what else is there?"-Harold Pinter
www.christiancagigal.com |
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lane99 Elite user 421 Posts
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Kammagic, thanks for getting it, and for not disrepecting your audiences.
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rick727 Regular user Houston, TX, USA 191 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-05-09 12:50, Frank Starsini wrote: Frank, exposing gaffed cards would be exposing 1 technique. The original routine in questioned exposed at least 7 sleights. If you could take an inventory of all card magic being performed in professional situations I would bet that the number of sleights used would far outnumber the number of gaffed cards used. This means that although it is exposure, no I would not be as upset had he exposed a gaffed card.
Practice what you present.
Present what you practice. |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13426 Posts
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But the exposure of mac aces would be a lot more memorable and concrete.
Plus he'd be exposing probably one of the most magical card tricks ever devised (in my opinion). People would take away 100% knowledge of the method. That's a big percentage. That's why Jason's post was so *** funny to me. And probably why he posted it. With this (reset), though I don't approve, people walk away with hardly anything except a bunch of jibber-jabber. They might have something memorable but mostly they would just remember it was a slight-of-hand salad, and it all worked out in the end. Exposing mac aces? Yikes. That would be hard-core.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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christiancagigal Special user SF Bay Area 624 Posts
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This can easily sound like one only get's mad when an effect oneself does is exposed, regardless of one's ideals about the whole thing.
I don't do card stuff as much anymore so Mr. Nathan's prestenation doesn't bother me. I do have a favorite Mac Aces routine I used to do. Exposing that has bothered me. However, for some here it doesn't seem valuable enough to warrent the same level of anger and zeal. For many here, the exposure of ashes in the hand wouldn't bother them (no matter how much they claim not to agree with any exposures) because it's a trick found in many kids books and "who really does that effect anyway" and "it's only one secret." Well, I do that effect. If fact it's how I end the first act of my show. And, it has been very exposed on TV recently, I believe now a couple of times. Trust me it hurt. It hurt me lots. But, in the end I've come to discover the routine is well constructed enough that the method (the same basic method we all know)is buried and stuns everybody greatly as they leave for intermission. I've practiced it with a very smart friend of mine who ( of course knew what I was doing because he was helping work out the timing and such.) When he saw it in performance he had still had no clue how it was done. All of this talk about ashes in the card forum to say, "Do it better than everybody else and you won't have any problems" regardless of your opinion's about it all. And, be aware that one's personal relationship to the effects and moves can and will cloud one's judgement on the whole thing. One man's exposure is another man's,"yeah so what? And visa versa. C
"Besides the known and the unknown, what else is there?"-Harold Pinter
www.christiancagigal.com |
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Posted: May 8, 2008 11:44 pm 
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