The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Blatant exposure by Paul Nathan - Tradeshow magician » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9~10 [Next]
rick727
View Profile
Regular user
Houston, TX, USA
188 Posts

Profile of rick727
I was attending a trade show today (OTC - Oil Technology Conference) in Houston, TX. I saw a magician performing so I decided to watch his act. He did a 4 Ace production. Then he proceeded to do a variation of Twisting the Aces type effect to turn the 4 Aces into 4 Jacks. At the end he exposed the entire trick. This was not a sucker effect, he exposed real professional working sleights. I was appalled. He did it in front of a live audience with a video camera showing a closeup shot of his hands. Here are the list of the sleights he exposed

  • Bottom card buckle (he turned the buckle so that the audience and camera had a clear view!)
  • Peek of card under buckle
  • Pinky break
  • Double lift - he showed it, then explained it.
  • Ascanio Spread - he showed four cards, then said, "It looks like four cards, but look, I have a fifth card hidden under here". Yes, he called it an "Ascanio spread" with the correct pronounciation.
  • Mexican turnover. He even made a joke saying "Don't blame me, that is what it is called." This joke clearly indicated he had done this routine many times before.
  • etc.


The audience was clearly understanding what he was explaining, it was not like a sucker effect. It was as if he was teaching the trick at a lecture. After the explanation he said something like: That is how magicians do tricks. They don't do magic, but they trick you with manipulation. What I am about to do next is not manipulation, it is impossible. He then went on to do MacDonald's Aces. He didn't show the gimmicked cards, nor the method for this trick.

Please visit Paul Nathan's website and complain: http://www.firemagic.com/index.html. You can send e-mail to paul@firemagic.com. The "Contact us" link on his website does not actually allow you to send an e-mail.
Practice what you present.

Present what you practice.
Strange Tasting Fish Sticks
View Profile
1988 - 2013
The Big Brother is watching you
1095 Posts

Profile of Strange Tasting Fish Sticks
Wow
Strange Tasting Fish Sticks
View Profile
1988 - 2013
The Big Brother is watching you
1095 Posts

Profile of Strange Tasting Fish Sticks
It says the "page cannot be found"
MickeyPainless
View Profile
Inner circle
California
6074 Posts

Profile of MickeyPainless
Don't know what this guy did cuz I wasn't there but in your post alone your description of Ascanio was somewhat of a tip as was the mention of gimmick cards in a particular trick...... Stones and glass houses come to mind!
Just mi dos centavos amigo,
Mick
rick727
View Profile
Regular user
Houston, TX, USA
188 Posts

Profile of rick727
The correct link would be: http://www.firemagic.com/index.html My original link had an extra "." at the end.
Practice what you present.

Present what you practice.
rick727
View Profile
Regular user
Houston, TX, USA
188 Posts

Profile of rick727
Quote:
On 2008-05-07 01:07, MickeyPainless wrote:
Don't know what this guy did cuz I wasn't there but in your post alone your description of Ascanio was somewhat of a tip as was the mention of gimmick cards in a particular trick...... Stones and glass houses come to mind!
Just mi dos centavos amigo,
Mick


Mickey, my intention for describing what I saw was to give credence to my complaint about his exposure. Perhaps someone can read my post and figure out what an Ascanio spread is, but I am not showing it to a live audience of people, displaying it, calling it by its correct name, and explaining its use in a magic trick. I resent the stones and glass houses comment, amigo. If I am guilty of anything it is being sloppy in my post, but I am not guilty of purposely exposing working sleights to an audience.
Practice what you present.

Present what you practice.
MickeyPainless
View Profile
Inner circle
California
6074 Posts

Profile of MickeyPainless
Justify it any way you like! By your rationalization HIS exposure is grand theft auto and all you did was swipe a candy bar I guess! I'm not trying to pick a fight Rick, just pointing out that 2 wrongs don't make a right! Think about it before you blast me with some kind of retort!
DStachowiak
View Profile
Inner circle
Baltimore, MD
2158 Posts

Profile of DStachowiak
Rick,
I think Mickey was merely pointing out that this is an open forum, and that the details you described might belong in the Secret Sessions forum. A better way to handle an issue like this might be to post the general info here and the details in Secret Sessions. He was just reminding you.
Don
Woke up.
Fell out of bed.
Dragged a comb across m' head.
MickeyPainless
View Profile
Inner circle
California
6074 Posts

Profile of MickeyPainless
Thanks Don, I could have worded it more along your lines and maybe even done it via PM. For not doing so I apologize to any offended!

Mick
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24260 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
Regarding the "exposure" in Rick's post -- there's not enough there to reconstruct any of the sleights involved -- you couldn't, for example, figure out what an Ascanio spread was just from what Rick posted.

Regarding Paul Nathan -- this is not helping magic in any way, shape or form. Of course, he is probably not a member of any of the magical organizations, so there really isn't anything any of us can do about it, other than shun him.

If he is a member of IBM or SAM, then proceedings to have him expelled would be in order.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
MickeyPainless
View Profile
Inner circle
California
6074 Posts

Profile of MickeyPainless
I shall stand corrected!
I will ask one question Bill just for my own clarification, is the mention of gimmick in a particular trick considered exposure?
Thanks in advance,
Mick
adamc
View Profile
Regular user
Sydney, Australia
137 Posts

Profile of adamc
I just checked out his site, you can find the performance that Rick was talking about by clicking on the 'Video Downloads' menu on the left hand side and then watching the 4th video from the top, where it says "Here is some live footage of Paul at his theater - This was shot during a late nite cabaret in 2007".

I don't know why he feels the need to explain the trick, he does it in a very braggadocio manner, as if to prove how skilled he is to be able to pull off these difficult sleights. For the entire crowd watching the performance, they'll no doubt be very jaded the next time they happen to see a live magician.
double_lift
View Profile
Veteran user
Platform 9 3/4
355 Posts

Profile of double_lift
Quote:
After the explanation he said something like: That is how magicians do tricks. They don't do magic, but they trick you with manipulation. What I am about to do next is not manipulation, it is impossible. He then went on to do MacDonald's Aces. He didn't show the gimmicked cards, nor the method for this trick.


That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard!! Did he really think that people would believe his was real magic? That guy's an idiot, no doubt about it.
"There's a world of difference between the spectators not knowing how something is done and them knowing that it can't be done."
(Simon Aronson)
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
I hate any exposure. I'm against giving out what's referred to as "two card monte" which exposes two powerful gaff cards lay fok should not be made aware exists.

That being said...ever see Magicians who first try to learn twisting the aces? My head hurt for days trying to learn it. Anyone that was expossed to Paul Nathan's expalnation wouldn't remember a thing. It stinks he did it, but....
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
danielellis_5
View Profile
Loyal user
Sheffield
211 Posts

Profile of danielellis_5
Although waht he does is wrong and he shouldnt have done it I agree with christopher that no lay person would be able tofollow that.Heck I can perform that effect and I still couldn't follow his explanation.

Also is this any different to what Penn and Teller do when they exposed the cups and balls and also that blastoff effect on Americas got talent.When they do it it is also wrong but its still entertaining and I think that Paul might have seen Penn and Teller and thought it was a good idea and then put it into his routine.


Dan
Best quote from a spectator"I know how he did that,it was sleight of hand"(spectator then sits back looking pleased with himself)
kammagic
View Profile
Inner circle
1304 Posts

Profile of kammagic
His explanation was bogus and so fast nobody would remember any of it. You need not worry about it. I watched his videos he does some pretty impressive stuff. He looks like a hard working pro. He is not doing anything that I have a problem with. Pretty creative actually giving the bogus explanation to make McDonalds aces more magical. My advice would be leave the guy alone and put that extra energy into making your own magic better. There are much more important things in life to worry about then some guy flashing some breaks and showing a couple buckles.
The Whisperer
View Profile
Regular user
109 Posts

Profile of The Whisperer
Yes I also agree that the explanation was too fast. Who is going to remember what a mechanics grip (the simplest thing of all) was after such a speedy tutorial? I barely got the gist of it and I know the terms. I still don't like that he is revealing the double-lift...part of my most used sleight list! I thought parts of his MacDonald's Aces needed a bit of work too! Just my thoughts!
Sh3ldon
rick727
View Profile
Regular user
Houston, TX, USA
188 Posts

Profile of rick727
I was at the show and I saw the audienc members laugh and nod when the sleights were revealed. They had complete understanding of what he did because he fully explained it. He was not trying to do a sucker explanation, he was doing it as if lecturing. I am sure that noone in the audience could go home and do the sleights (unless they were magicians like myself), however, if they were to come to my show they would recognize the moves (e.g. the Ascanio spread). There was another magician (Scott Wells) working in another part of the tradeshow. He was doing a card effect for a spectator and he held a break. The spectator reached up and actually pointed out the break! This was probably due to the fact that he had just seen Paul Nathan EXPLAIN AND DEMONSTRATE WHAT A BREAK IS down the hall a few minutes prior.
Practice what you present.

Present what you practice.
rick727
View Profile
Regular user
Houston, TX, USA
188 Posts

Profile of rick727
I forgot to add "Elmsley count" to the list of sleights he explained in his demonstration. I am sure there are more that I forgot. When I was driving home I remember counting at least 8, but there might be more.
Practice what you present.

Present what you practice.
Simon Bakker
View Profile
Special user
the Netherlands
587 Posts

Profile of Simon Bakker
In November or decemember I was doing walkaround at a corporate party. They hired a stage act as well. He did some big illusions and then did professors nightmare. He started explaing the effect to the audience. At first I thought that it was going to be some kind of sucker explanation (a la silk to egg), but it wasn't. He just detailed the complete workings of the effect. Sdaly I hear more and more stories like this one.....
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Blatant exposure by Paul Nathan - Tradeshow magician » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9~10 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.15 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL