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Terry Holley
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Posts in another thread got me to wondering how others decide what's right and wrong.

This is something that is talked about in magic regarding knock-offs of effects and routines, and there are various thoughts.

So in all of life, how do you decide what's right and wrong?

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Destiny
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Do no harm

(In my human fraility, I do not always achieve this, but it's my aim)

Destiny
stoneunhinged
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How do I decide? From a lifetime of thinking, considering, reconsidering, and experience. What does the Bible say, what do philosophers say, what does science say, what do my neighbors say...I consider all of it.

BUT: I decide. I choose. I choose to try to be good.

I am not a relativist. Relativism is like a cancer in the modern world.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Wow, Terry. This is a great question. Usually I don't decide; I just do. Thankfully, my upbringing and intuitions serve me well most of the time. When I have to think about what to do, sometimes I am motivated by kindness; sometimes by caring; and sometimes by a sense of duty. When I act otherwise, I usually feel shame. And that probably helps me the next time.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Vandy Grift
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I ask myself "what would Magnus Eisnegrim do?"


Just playin John. I'm in a goofy mood today.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
kcg5
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The golden rule
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
LobowolfXXX
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I agree with John; this is an excellent question. A good lead-in question is whether "right" and "wrong" exist, at least in some sort of transcendent way. Like Stone, I am not a relativist; I believe that they do exist. However, surprising as I find it, that doesn't seem to be a given in everyone's worldview.

My answer coincides to a large extent with the answers of John & Stone. First, I make it a point from time to time to think about things from the standpoint of moral philosophy, and I think that helps. A lot of moral questions are rather obvious; for those that aren't, I find it useful to have some familiarity with asking yourself questions about whether and why something is moral or immoral (or right or wrong).

Aside from that, it comes down to moral intuition, exposure to the viewpoints of others who think about such things, and rational scrutiny (do these ideas make sense? why? why not?).

I think regardless of the tools, everyone's calculus is guided by some underlying principles. A couple of the big ones for me are, GENERALLY:

1. It's not "wrong" to do what you want to do if you're not directly preventing other people from doing what THEY want to do.
2. Private property does and should exist, and this is both a source and a limitation on people's rights. e.g. you have the right to have sex with person X, but you don't have the right to do so inside my house. Conversely, I have the right to stop you from doing things in my house that I don't have the right to stop you from doing elsewhere.
3. The choice to do something implies a degree of informed consent; lying or committing other fraudulent acts to induce conduct is generally "wrong". The fact that the other person was doing what he/she wanted to do doesn't let you off the hook if that desire was formed by your misrepresentation (other than in situations in which such misrepresentations are expected; e.g. it's ok to lie in a poker game, but not to induce someone to enter into a real estate contract with you).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
BSutter
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If one needs to ask what is wright or wrong then one probably already knows the answer and is seeking justification. My rule is, when in doubt, don't.

Regards,
Bill
Kyf
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George Carlin's abreviated 10 commandments is a pretty good moral guide.

Kyf
"I put tape on the mirrors in my house so I don't accidentally walk through into another dimension." Steve Wright
spatlind
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Quote:
On 2008-05-08 16:36, BSutter wrote:
If one needs to ask what is wright or wrong then one probably already knows the answer and is seeking justification. My rule is, when in doubt, don't.

Regards,
Bill


Beat me to it. If you have to think about it... don't..
Scott
Actions lie louder than words - Carolyn Wells

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature - Frank Lloyd Wright.
Mark Rough
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It depends on whether you agree with Kant or Hume.
What would Wavy do?
stoneunhinged
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Mark, that's !@#$%^&*. The choices aren't Kant or Hume, but Kant and Hegel. Wait. Kant and Aristotle. Wait. Aristotle and Hegel. Wait. Plato and Aristotle. Or Aristotle and Hume. Wait...wait...wait.

Forget philosophers. All philosophers are pederasts and failed magicians. Go read religious texts.

Or don't.

Here is TRUTH:

:stout:
Jaz
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I flip a coin.
stoneunhinged
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Jaz, have a beer:

:stout:
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2008-05-08 16:36, BSutter wrote:
If one needs to ask what is wright or wrong then one probably already knows the answer and is seeking justification. My rule is, when in doubt, don't.

Regards,
Bill


This is often the case. But sometimes we do have to make painfully difficult decisions. Have you never been in the position when every choice seems to lead to problems?

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
gaddy
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One Two Three!

Immanuel Kant was a real ****ant
Who was very rarely stable.

Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy old beggar
Who could think you under the table.

David Hume could out-consume
Schopenhauer and Hegel...

And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.

There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya
'Bout the raising of the wrist.
Socrates, himself, was permanently pished.

John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,
After half a pint of shandy- was particularly ill!

Plato, they say, could stick it away
Half a crate of whiskey every day.

Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
Hobbes was fond of his dram,
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart:
"I drink, therefore I am"

Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pished!
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
Jaz
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Sorry Stone.
The coin came up tails.
Thanks anyhow. Smile

Magnus John,
Oh yeah!
Sometimes it seems there's prices to be paid for whatever we do.
stoneunhinged
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I'm going to bed, Heidegger and Husserl be ******.

But:

I love you all.

Good night.
GlenD
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Watch out, Anton Chigurh might show up anytime now (just a thought from the coin flipping method... "cawlit").

The more "wrong" decisions I make, usually indicate my own selfishness is motivating me and the more "right" decisions I make usually indicate my alignment with God's purposes in my life (which is where I want to be).


I hope I did'nt just shut down the thread for above comment, just an honest answer.

Glen
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
Magnus Eisengrim
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Glen. I would hope not, too. Honest answers are the best.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
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