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MagicMattMan
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A friend email this to me asking me to take it as satire and not as a personal insult:

http://cid-f87640cb8140620d.skydrive.liv......cian.pdf
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not, none will suffice." -Joseph Dunninger



"Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."Hebrews 13:2
Terry Owens
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I don't care what they call it, satire or not, it's still not right to demean Jesus Christ...the title by it's self is enough to cringe on.
MagicMattMan
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I can agree to the fullest extent. I have to admit that it made me chuckle at how knuckleheaded some people are though.
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not, none will suffice." -Joseph Dunninger



"Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."Hebrews 13:2
KurtK
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Same as Terry on this one. That is so blasphemous its not even funny. Calling Christ himself a magician is like calling the Sears tower a little shack. They just don't equal out in any way. Stuff like this disgusts me.....I believe I've made my point.
rossmacrae
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They're not gonna sell me on "it's satire." It would be satire if there were a point to be made by poking fun, but that factor is completely absent.
MagicMattMan
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I actually took this as a personal insult and not as comedic as my friend thought it would.
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not, none will suffice." -Joseph Dunninger



"Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."Hebrews 13:2
tboehnlein
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When I first saw it it brough back memories of this book
http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Magician-Cha......8&sr=8-1
Gary Barker
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Matt,
I have had the opportunity to watch you from a closer distance than many here. From stopping in at the shop or seeing you at Magic by the Bay...the magic business can be "quarky" at times...and often you will be asked to "compromise" your faith, even maybe just by laughing along at a "joke" with the crowd. You are a great guy as I see it and I am so very impressed with you. Keep letting God shape you and mold you and be blessed. I hope others on here will be able to meet you one day as well.
PS- Prayers of support for your pastor's family, your church and to you during this time of earth's loss. Just keep reminded...we ain't home yet but they are!!!
MagicMattMan
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Hey Gary!

Thanks for those humbling,kind words brother! Good to see you on the Café. Much appreciation for the prayers.

-Matt
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not, none will suffice." -Joseph Dunninger



"Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."Hebrews 13:2
Terry Owens
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We're not talking about a CEO, or a buddy next door...We're talking about the God of all the Universe...The King of Kings, Lord of Lords...

We keep trying to make God in our image instead us becoming more like Him.

If God caused some folks to be eaten by a bear because they were making fun of one of His prophets (just because he was bald)...that isn't to encouraging to those who make fun of God.
RevJohn
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For those of you how are wondering what Terry is talking about, or who Terry is talking to, I made a response to the PDF. BUT, really not wanting to get in the heated debate I knew that would be coming, I asked the Café' to remove the post.

But just for the fun of it (and this is not the original response)...

Terry, you see that is the mystery of the incarnation... we ARE talking about a friend or a buddy next door. AND, in the same breath, we are talking about the King of King, Lord of Lords.

That has been the question, and the debate throughout centuries. How is Christ fully God and fully Man. This PDF gets at the heart of it. So instead of burying it and saying, "This is heretical, burn them." Perhaps we use it as a spring board for conversation. One does not have to agree with something, or embrace it as Gospel, in order to use it for healthy and fruitful conversation.

And do you really think that God is so small, so picky that God can't handle being made fun of, if that was this artist's intention? I mean, what about being angry at (Job)? or questioning (Thomas, Moses, Sarah, Abraham)? or Denying (Peter)? Or running away (Christ's followers on the Cross). Yet, restoration happens again and again.

We really seem to be walking on the thread of what people accuse us of doing. It says in the Bible about Magicians. Well, we know the arguments. We know in our hearts about the Christ we portray.

But, there are those who will not hear that. I think this PDF was made in fun, in jest, in light... Double Coffin? How can one take that seriously? Floaty things strapped to the shoes? Come on, that is humorous.

I know that we will disagree. Which is fine, and the beauty of this life. We can disagree and still be at the same Table.

RevJohn
clarissa35f
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I am sorry, but I believe Proverbs says.." Fear of The Lord is the beginning of Wisdom." Portrayals of Jesus that are humorous do not display a healthy respect.

It does not respect his person, or his sacrifice. This person died on the cross for our sins personally, to make a " parody" of his life is sacrilegious. In my mind entertaining and supporting this can come close to sinning against The Holy Spirit.

When I see things like this I am reminded of Episodes of South park where Jesus Christ is a Super hero... along with Buddha and Moses... or of Family Guy, where he appears on stage with David Blaine in a magic competition... and loses.

It makes me cringe to see such things. I just do not see how anything positive or educational can come out of mocking God. Sorry if I am taking this so seriously, but it just makes sme sick to see these things laughed off as " well it's just parody, God isn't offended... relax it's just a joke... do you lack a sense of humor?" I guess I do, as I see nothing funny there.
“Amateurs practice until they get it right.
Professionals practice until they can’t get it wrong.” <Anonymous>
"There is no such thing as magic, there is no other way that could have been done" <Whit Haydn>
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-05-27 13:11, clarissa35f wrote:

Portrayals of Jesus that are humorous do not display a healthy respect.



Why not?

I've heard many claim that god is an infinite being. If this is true then he must possess an infinite sense of humor. How else can you explain the platypus?

You can respect your peers, family and friends and still humorously poke fun at them. It keeps us humble and makes us human.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
clarissa35f
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I think Terry got it right. God smote a bunch of kid's for making fun of one of his prophet's Bald head. But he thinks making fun of his son, that died for you is funny?

You think making fun of his son, that hung on a cross, painfully, and cruelly ... for you... is funny? Gee, I can see God laughing up a storm over this one...
“Amateurs practice until they get it right.
Professionals practice until they can’t get it wrong.” <Anonymous>
"There is no such thing as magic, there is no other way that could have been done" <Whit Haydn>
RevJohn
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Quote:
On 2008-05-27 13:11, clarissa35f wrote:
I just do not see how anything positive or educational can come out of mocking God.


But you see, here is the rub. I don't see it as mocking God. I am guessing that many who have posted here find Gary Larson's portrayal of Hell funny either. Cause that would be seen as mocking a very serious aspect of your understanding of the afterlife.

And to say this drawing is close to "sinning against the Holy Spirit"? I wonder what we think about those who actually do things in the NAME of God? That in my opinion is truly mocking God. Those who spread hate in the Name of God, those who tell the world who God hates, rather than who God loves and redeems. That is mocking God. Much more harmful than Satire.

Then again, I guess my Bible study using the Simpson's wouldn't be appreciated to much.

RevJohn
clarissa35f
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Quote:
And to say this drawing is close to "sinning against the Holy Spirit"? I wonder what we think about those who actually do things in the NAME of God? That in my opinion is truly mocking God. Those who spread hate in the Name of God, those who tell the world who God hates, rather than who God loves and redeems. That is mocking God. Much more harmful than Satire.


I agree with almost all of this. Sure, doing horrible things in God's name is sinning against The Holy Spirit. I agree with you 100 %.

I disagree with the distinction you try to draw as you talk about " More harmful.... vs less harmful" when it comes to spritual matters.

To me that is like saying.. " well THIS vial has 100 % Strychnine, and THAT vial has only a 50 % solution of Strychnine immersed in Pure water.... so drinking gallon of the 50 % solution is less harmful than the 100 % solution."

What does it matter if it is less harmful if both are strong enough to kill you?
“Amateurs practice until they get it right.
Professionals practice until they can’t get it wrong.” <Anonymous>
"There is no such thing as magic, there is no other way that could have been done" <Whit Haydn>
GlenD
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The pdf link content ... Not funny and basically just insulting. However I won't be losing any sleep over it and I doubt that God is up in heaven whining about it. Is He saddened? Angered? Regretful? I imagine so (are things any different or better now than the days before the flood?) and this is just a tiny microscopic example why judgement will be coming soon.

GlenD
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
RevJohn
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K... time to get back to discussing Magic!!

Thanks all for coming. Nothing to see here, move along... move along. Smile

RevJohn
gaddy
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Regardless of everyone's indignation towards this joke-that-might-not-be-a-joke, I'm sure that your Jesus would accept this, turn the other cheek, and forgive the joker.

[quote]On 2008-05-27 13:41, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-05-27 13:11, clarissa35f wrote:

Portrayals of Jesus that are humorous do not display a healthy respect.




Quote:

Why not?

I've heard many claim that god is an infinite being. If this is true then he must possess an infinite sense of humor. How else can you explain the platypus?

You can respect your peers, family and friends and still humorously poke fun at them. It keeps us humble and makes us human.


True that RE: Platypus... How 'bout the Bombardier Beetle- He shoots a jet of boiling hot toxic chemicals out of him butt. Now THAT'S funny!

PS- just took a look at this and it's funny. "To the bottoms of an ordinary pair of sandals are affixed the inflated bladders of two Garadene Swine (fig.A)"

I only wish the neo-pagans I hang with had a sense of humor about their gods/goddesses like this!
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
gaddy
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Quote:
On 2008-05-27 13:47, clarissa35f wrote:
I think Terry got it right. God smote a bunch of kid's for making fun of one of his prophet's Bald head. But he thinks making fun of his son, that died for you is funny?

You think making fun of his son, that hung on a cross, painfully, and cruelly ... for you... is funny? Gee, I can see God laughing up a storm over this one...


are you being serious or sarcastic? I can't tell...
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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