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Markymark Inner circle 1686 Posts |
But how was any kitten harmed in the making of the last programme?
The girl never killed the kitten. The kitten never seemed to be in danger. Is it the idea that the kitten may have been in danger that you hated? [Hitler was a Catholic untill he was 12.It's more likely the techniques he used were from some occult source.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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HollyMental Elite user OR 423 Posts |
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On 2008-05-16 16:31, Markymark wrote: It depends on whether or not you think Mr. Brown uses stooges. If you believe the girl was an actress and knew all along the kitten was never in any danger, then I would liken the program more to a movie and apologize immediately to Mr. Brown for misinterpreting his show. If however you accept the notion that the girl truly believed she killed the kitten when she pushed that button, then Mr. Brown’s experiment becomes a reckless and juvenile manipulation stunt that irresponsibly risked psychologically damaging a young girl. And then insulted everyone by paying her off and leaving the impression that one can maliciously manipulate people as long as they pay them when they’re done. Quote:
On 2008-05-16 16:31, Markymark wrote: It is the irresponsible manipulation of a person into killing a kitten that I don’t approve of. That and thinking that simply paying someone money after traumatizing them is in any way fully compensatory for the damage. Don’t get me wrong. He ought to compensate her for the psychological damage he caused. But monetary compensation for damages is only an attempt to recover some losses due to injury. It should never be considered a substitute for not damaging someone in the first place. As far as the Catholic Church, the occult source you’re referring to is the source the Catholic Church got it from so it’s the same source either way. I wasn’t comparing Derren to Hitler. My point was that being a genius doesn’t automatically make something right. Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Can the people who took part in the millgram experiment sue? was that not worthwhile?
or does it only matter cos it was a cutesy-wutesy kitten?
I've asked to be banned
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Markymark Inner circle 1686 Posts |
I understand you now. The old cliche 'things are never what they appear to be'
always speaks to me when I watch any magic type stuff on t.v. but you certainly have some valid points. That might have been why the makers put all that surfing and larking about with the girl on her holiday!
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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christiancagigal Special user SF Bay Area 625 Posts |
Yes,
killing kittens is not only juvenile it's morally and ethically wrong, and rather psychotic. Exposing the very human trait: that we are ALL capable of doing juvenile, amoral, unthical and even psychotic things is BRILLIANT! It's a very important lesson that we must all learn. Some may be very scared to admit these are traits they carry inside of themselves. It makes us question the deepest parts of our souls. The parts we don't like to look at. It may even make us angry and defensive. But, with all of the darkness there can be an equal amount (if not more) LIGHT! Chances are we all carry both. And, sometimes the dark grabs us more often than not. We just squash it down. But, imagine if we could be forced to confront that side of ourselves and then never fear it again. All we would have in the end, would be light....... Maybe that's what Lauren was given. C PS no kittens were harmed in the making of that episode.
"Besides the known and the unknown, what else is there?"-Harold Pinter
www.christiancagigal.com |
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HollyMental Elite user OR 423 Posts |
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On 2008-05-16 16:54, Markymark wrote: Thank you for your understanding. Quote:
On 2008-05-16 16:51, abraxus wrote: Your condescension aside, I never said such types of experiments couldn’t be carried out responsibly. Please name for me the responsible competent planners who put together the detailed psychological analysis of the participant and put together valid scientific protocols designed to conduct the experiment while protecting the psychological health of the participant. Such planning takes years. Please provide me with the details of Mr. Brown’s carefully planned scientific experiment. And when can I expect the results of Mr. Brown’s responsible scientific experiment to be published? And in what scientific journal? My point is that his “experiment” is IRRESPONSIBLE. And yes, juvenile. Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
There was no condescension merely me suggesting that the kitten in question was both cutesy...and indeed wutesy...
I did not type it in a baby-voice... you do state however that "He ought to compensate her for the psychological damage he caused" - can you prove there was any? I don't wish to turn this into an argument - it's just that you've taken some large steps in and presumed alot, when derren has often said he can't show the amount of due care and attention he takes with people on his show... I'm sure if there were any problems - court cases and bad p.r. would be about...
I've asked to be banned
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HollyMental Elite user OR 423 Posts |
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On 2008-05-16 17:14, abraxus wrote: He can publish his research and his findings so that the scientific community as a whole can subject his tests to rigorous scientific scrutiny to ensure that the results are valid - as with anyone else conducting proper scientific experiments. I mean, if he’s done all the work you say and performed a proper scientific experiment, then it should all be well documented. And I should be able to expect the results to be published. That is if it was a valid scientific experiment. If it’s not, then it’s just reckless pseudoscience that threatened the psychological well being of the participant - which is exactly my point. Without being properly conducted, such an experiment is no more than a juvenile prank. Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
He didn't say it was an experiment - I stated that it was based around the findings of a series of experiments...
just like Big Brother was based originally in scientific experiments... again - you said "He ought to compensate her for the psychological damage he caused" can you prove that statement? if not - can we not both just enjoy our own opinions without either of us having to assume one of us has the higher ground? the original question I believe was "will he crack the states?" I believe he will, if you've not seen his stage show, no doubt its' available online...though a dvd is released now over here...
I've asked to be banned
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HollyMental Elite user OR 423 Posts |
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On 2008-05-16 17:28, abraxus wrote: You’ve really taken me out of context here. I meant it in the sense that anytime anyone causes psychological damage to another person, they should compensate them. I was trying to make the point that although it’s outrageous to think you can just pay someone you may have damaged psychologically with the expectation that that makes it somehow okay, it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t compensate in some way. In other words; paying someone whose psychological health you have recklessly risked isn’t a substitute for not causing the damage in the first place. However, that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be compensated in some way. In other words; the payment would be to compensate them for what you’ve put them through, not to somehow make what you’ve done okay. Not to mention the fact that manipulating someone into killing a kitten can be expected to damage someone psychologically. But to appease your preoccupation, I’ll retract the statement and apologize for it. I can have no direct evidence that the girl is psychologically damaged without access to her personal evaluation records or Mr. Brown’s documentation for his experiment, which I look forward to when Mr. Brown’s results are published in a scientific journal. Quote:
On 2008-05-16 17:28, abraxus wrote: And Big Brother is NOT a valid scientific experiment whether it was based on one or not. Derren Brown’s experiment - or whatever else you want to call it - was reckless pseudoscience. I have no problem with people idol worshipping the guy. I’ve seen people far more juvenile than Derren Brown become a superstar in the United States. But his “kitten killing” pseudoscientific experiment was just that - juvenile. Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
You don't have to apologise - calm down please!
I don't do arguments on the Café anymore..i'm over that particular hump... we can both have our own opinions eh?! group hug? the only thing I wish for you to retract is the verbal telescopic cosh...
I've asked to be banned
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HollyMental Elite user OR 423 Posts |
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On 2008-05-16 18:19, abraxus wrote: Calm down? Please don’t go the ad hominem route. I think higher of you than that. Seriously; calm down? I was responding to your question. I gave a calm reasoned response. Nor have I attempted to rob you of your right to an opinion. You can think what you want. I support your right to your opinion more than probably most people you’ll meet in your lifetime. Group hug? Absolutely. Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
You're right - it depends on the tone of voice we read things I suppose...sorry
anyway - lets enjoy the moment of the group hug....aaahhhh I've not seen tonights episode yet - I think its the guy who plays dr.who starts to believe he can predict the future...
I've asked to be banned
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HollyMental Elite user OR 423 Posts |
It’s okay. Disagreeing is one of those things in life that happens all the time but you never quite get used to. In its own way, it’s a terrific thing that keeps life fresh.
No hard feelings here. I’ll think about and consider all the things that have been said. After all, I’m not ALWAYS right - just a staggering amount of the time. Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
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Katherine Anne New user 91 Posts |
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On 2008-05-16 17:00, christiancagigal wrote: Brilliant. That sums up the art of DB. Nicely stated! KA |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
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On 2008-05-14 16:11, looch wrote: Yes. I appologize for taking so long. |
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shots Loyal user Kissimmee, FL 256 Posts |
I would also tend to believe that anyone who appears in one of Derren's shows signs a disclaimer releasing him from any psychological harm that may result from participating in said show. I know if I was performing shows like he does, it would be mandantory.
Personally I thought the kitten episode was dark and creepy---I loved it!
Magic in the Shadows
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kriskraze Special user 620 Posts |
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On 2008-05-21 13:34, shots wrote: In the UK, it's not possible for a contract to disclaim against liability for personal injury. |
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DJM Inner circle Israel 1681 Posts |
The man has been on TV for 8 years, with 3 different TV shows (each one running several seasons) and about 5 specials. Not to mention all his different stage shows that have also been very succesfful and won awards.
So to say he's boring and that magicians like him more than the public.. well, that sounds pretty ignorant. He's probably the most well known mentalist in the world right now. You just need to spend a few minutes on YouTube and other forums to see how much reaction he gets from the public, mostly in a good way. |
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Mugen Regular user 101 Posts |
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On 2008-05-21 14:13, DJM wrote: From what iv heard lot of people arn't interested in him because they assume he is fake and stooges are involved, I guess this happens because some of tricks are too good and stooges are the only way they can explain his tricks, another reason is suspect is that people don't like to believe they can be psychologically manipulated or red, Derren's biggest Fan base are Students especially girls by a long shot |
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