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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Derren Brown - An Evening of Wonder (Mild spoilers) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mike Ince
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Neemdog, do we agree that what makes a great live performance isn't always what makes great TV? The people in the theater had hopes of having their thoughts addressed and their questions answered. I propose that had your family members each submitted a sealed thought to Derren before the broadcast they would have kept watching in hopes that he might answer them.

You made a good point about missing. We've discussed its importance in several threads over the last few years. Fortunately for me, when I read minds I legitimately struggle. During my Q&A I sometimes dismiss a question because I'm not receiving the thought. Typically I "tune in" and get more accurate as the act progresses which is nice because it's terrible to miss while closing the strongest part of your act. Reference Principium 5 from Bob Cassidy's Principia Mentalia (reprinted in The Artful Mentalism of..., p. 67).
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
neemdog
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Completely agree with you Mike--I asked them all if they were in the theatre and their questions were being answered, would they feel more invested? Some said they didn't know, some said definitely. I think the fact alone that they had such strong reactions to it is still important. It was almost as if they believed it so much that they refused to believe it, which is a beautiful thing.
ko_brian
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First off all I think Derren is amazing, but one thing Peter Turner said in his penguin lecture that just makes a lot a sense is that sometimes is good to get a small thing wrong (really wrong ) to gain credibility in a biger one. Derren is alway too right if you will. As a performer I love it.... but lay mem is different...
christophe
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Quote:
On 2013-11-25 03:17, ko_brian wrote:
First off all I think Derren is amazing, but one thing Peter Turner said in his penguin lecture that just makes a lot a sense is that sometimes is good to get a small thing wrong (really wrong ) to gain credibility in a biger one. Derren is alway too right if you will. As a performer I love it.... but lay mem is different...

Do you think all his theater show are fill up only with magician or mentalist?
Man! laymen go to see him again and again , show after show, magician didn't make him famous and successeful but normal people...
I can't believe you don't understand that, allo, but allo?
C.J.
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The beauty of Derren's oracle act is in the careful plotting and staging. He builds pace, energy, specificity and impossibility as it goes on, leading to a well-presented climax. I'm not sure how much I agree or disagree with the "getting up to get snacks because this is too impossible for me to care" thing. The audience in that show had an interval to get up and do snacking just before the Oracle Act began, thus allowing everyone to re-focus and basically get ready for the insane journey of the second half of the show. I wonder if providing that break at that spot would have had any different effect on neemdog's family.

But I agree in some ways with his underlying point - I saw a performer do a live show a few nights ago. During the book test, he stabbed at letters, got a couple more letters, then finally hit the word. And the audience didn't respond at all. I'm not sure it was necessarily a case of (quote) "If you're psychic, then you obviously know what everyone's thinking, so why is it entertaining?" But it certainly showed that his building of tension failed, and that his climax was either unclear, or else was completely valid and ordinary in the context of the audience's expectation, and therefore unworthy of spontaneous applause.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Be fondly remembered.
ko_brian
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Quote:
On 2013-11-25 03:25, christophe wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-11-25 03:17, ko_brian wrote:
First off all I think Derren is amazing, but one thing Peter Turner said in his penguin lecture that just makes a lot a sense is that sometimes is good to get a small thing wrong (really wrong ) to gain credibility in a biger one. Derren is alway too right if you will. As a performer I love it.... but lay mem is different...

Do you think all his theater show are fill up only with magician or mentalist?
Man! laymen go to see him again and again , show after show, magician didn't make him famous and successeful but normal people...
I can't believe you don't understand that, allo, but allo?


I do understand that. I know people love him, (I do love him) . You are right Cristophe lay men do love him. Im talking about Credibility, he has a lot becouse of his name, He has built it for himself. It means that people want to see him anyway, but it doesn't mean they will like every thing he does. think about it. He is famous, people will pay to see him, they like him and his work, but you cant tell me for sure what is going through the public head. All the best.

By the way I still thinking Peter Turner's Principle. Sometimes not being so perfect is the best, and built credibility, afterall I'm not Derren.
neemdog
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C.J., I think you may be right about the intermission--the show was definitely structured to allow a break there, and if we'd taken that break, I'm sure that the all around experience would have changed--which just goes to show that some of the most seemingly inconsequential aspects of a performance can be crucial in their reception.

ko_brian, I remember hearing Peter Turner mention how "Failures breed credibility," and I agree with it completely. Something I like that Derren incorporates, especially in An Evening of Wonders--he fails slightly during a few routines, but later on in the show turns it into a hit with a spectacular reveal. That way, he has the same effect as Peter was talking about--in the moment he is failing and his credibility is developed, but the callback at the end turns his work into something spectacular.
Mike Ince
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Begin at the 2:15 mark and you'll see what appears to be a real failure. Whether it was intentional I can't tell. If it was then Mr. Brown is a good actor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MkQaLhFyeI
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
neemdog
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Looks to me like pre-show lost on a spectator. That guy is stone cold!!

Thanks for sharing that--it's awesome to see (if it was unintentional) how an expert handles a complete miss, and he just didn't make a big deal out of it. Also, it made the stone cold guy appreciate Milan more, and sort of want to help Derren succeed more. Awesome.
saysold1
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I love DB.

Looks Mike like that was a legit miss - but so what right? He didn't seem to worry about it, but David Frost seemed to feel bad so all good.
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DT3
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Quote:
On 2013-11-25 14:33, Mike Ince wrote:
Begin at the 2:15 mark and you'll see what appears to be a real failure. Whether it was intentional I can't tell. If it was then Mr. Brown is a good actor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MkQaLhFyeI


Wow. Derren is so much charm.
Mike Ince
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On 2013-11-25 16:29, saysold1 wrote:

I love DB.

Looks Mike like that was a legit miss - but so what right? He didn't seem to worry about it, but David Frost seemed to feel bad so all good.


It seems not to have affected Brown's career.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
ko_brian
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On 2013-11-25 12:55, neemdog wrote:
C.J., I think you may be right about the intermission--the show was definitely structured to allow a break there, and if we'd taken that break, I'm sure that the all around experience would have changed--which just goes to show that some of the most seemingly inconsequential aspects of a performance can be crucial in their reception.

ko_brian, I remember hearing Peter Turner mention how "Failures breed credibility," and I agree with it completely. Something I like that Derren incorporates, especially in An Evening of Wonders--he fails slightly during a few routines, but later on in the show turns it into a hit with a spectacular reveal. That way, he has the same effect as Peter was talking about--in the moment he is failing and his credibility is developed, but the callback at the end turns his work into something spectacular.


that's true. The bill serial number routine in this show is awesome.
ko_brian
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On 2013-11-25 14:33, Mike Ince wrote:
Begin at the 2:15 mark and you'll see what appears to be a real failure. Whether it was intentional I can't tell. If it was then Mr. Brown is a good actor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MkQaLhFyeI


Derren in action. He got the guts. He is awesome!!!
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