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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Over-doing misdirection (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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remf3
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I've been working on some different coins across plots, trying to work out my own routines and practicing different sleights and the click pass. I was watching one video, just for ideas, where every time the person used a click pass they said "Hear the click?" Is it just me or is he drawing too much attention to the fact that there was allegedly no move performed?

I was thinking that the sound itself is the misdirection and there would be no need to draw more attention to the fact that there was a sound.

Any opinions or insight into this? Is it a style thing or am I just over-thinking it?
Noel M
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I tend agree with you. It's running when nobody is chasing. As a caveat, I have to say that without seeing the routine I can't say it's a mistake; there may be a reason for it.
jocce
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It sounds a bit weird. Generally speaking I don't find it a great idea to plant the thought that I might be faking to do something when I am in fact doing just that. The sound together with the hand motions and all those clues given away by body language should be enough.
remf3
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Noel--I think your analogy is great! I understand it may seem out of context as I wrote it, but I remember based on the moves and plot the phrase just seemed superfluous when you could already hear the coins hitting one another.
michaelmagicart
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I agree with Noel M and jocce, why draw attention to this obvious, unless you want them to think something else my be making the rattle. People are not stupid, so why would this statement have to be made.
Jaz
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All the above are worth listening to.
What happens in the mentioned click pass is not misdirection but rather directing them to something that should be obvious and that you really don't want them to focus on.
Misdirection should be casual and motivated.
ViciousCycle
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One magic author says, "Misdirection is the art of directing a person's attention to something more interesting than what you don't want them to pay attention to." By this definition, remf3, I wouldn't consider what the person was doing on this video to be misdirection. He's calling verbal attention to something that there's no need to draw excess attention to. A spectator shouldn't have to give a lot of conscious attention to the clicks. If one has a spectator write a secret message with a pen, one doesn't then say, "You notice how this is a standard Bic pen. Why you could write checks with this." The patter you described in the video is equivalent.
erlandish
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Without seeing the routine and the context he says it (was the click audible?) it's hard to know what to think. One thing that's worth keeping in mind is this... coins across is a multiple phase routine, and as such scrutiny is going to be increased as the effect goes along. Meaning, the performer is going to be expected to make it more fair as it progresses. I can see a situation where if I was doing it, and the coin had already travelled, and the noise had already sounded, and they were still staring at my hands, looking for a move that wasn't going to come, I might ask if they noticed the coin travelled.

One thing... the sound of the coin is misdirection? What sort of routine is this? Usually the sound is meant to signal that the magic has just happened. I don't know many coins across where that sound is meant for misdirectional purposes.
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marty.sasaki
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Many folks believe that mis-direction is the wrong way to think of things. Tomy Wonder says that you should be directing the audience attention throughout the performance. Misdirecting doesn't make sense in this context. If you are always directing someone then they will see what you want them to see and notice what you want them to notice. There can't be too much misdirection.

A lecturer at an !@#embly meeting talked about a course he took in film making, specifically cinematography. He said that a good cinematographer controlled everything within the frame and that doing this with magic leads to good magic.
Marty Sasaki
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Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind.
erlandish
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That's a good point, Marty, which adds to my confusion with the idea of classifying the clink sound as misdirection. It's proof of the effect... don't you want to make sure that they don't miss that?
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Noel M
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The word "Misdirection" has become more of a technical term rather that what its literal meaning might be if we looked in the dictionary. When spectators eyes follow an empty hand thinking it contains coins or a sponge ball they are looking exactly where we want them to look. So how can this be "mis-anything?"

What I think we mean is that we are directing them to where we want but the "mis" part is that the object is really elsewhere. Another way of looking at is, if we want them to look where the object really is, we direct their attention. If we direct them to where it really isn't we're misdirecting them.
marty.sasaki
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It's a riot what happens with software that tries to censor the posts here.

I wrote "A" "s" "s" "e" "m" "b" "l" "y" "9" and it replaced it with "!@#embly".

Just do the click pass, but don't draw attention to it. Just do it.
Marty Sasaki
Arlington, Massachusetts, USA

Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind.
erlandish
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Oh jeez, wait a second. I TOTALLY misread. Disregard whatever I wrote earlier, completely. I thought we were talking about after the effect, with the coin arriving. Sorry, long day busking, skip a couple of words, think you're all clever at pointing out what others aren't, and you make an !@# of yourself. (same censorship there, I imagine?)

Yes, in that situation, calling attention to the click noise is in all likelihood a bad idea. Al Schneider even mentioned that the click pass itself might be a bad idea, since sometimes people start asking "How did you make the click noise?" if it's obvious that there's only one coin there. Look at the Al Schneider Technique Vol 1 for his discussion on that.

My apologies again. Very embarassing, that.
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spatlind
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Wow, you really dropped the ball there erlandish.. Smile
And I thought I was going to be clever and point out that the "click" in a "click pass was a convincer, nothing to do with misdirection..
Actions lie louder than words - Carolyn Wells

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature - Frank Lloyd Wright.
erlandish
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Quote:
On 2008-05-25 03:38, spatlind wrote:
Wow, you really dropped the ball there erlandish.. Smile


No kidding. If that's the harshest thing anybody says to me about it, I'll have gotten off easy. Otherwise, people would be right to pile on. Given some of the smack I've talked elsewhere, I deserve it.

Quote:
And I thought I was going to be clever and point out that the "click" in a "click pass was a convincer, nothing to do with misdirection..


That's right. It falls into that category of convincer which should fly by people not paying attention, and "get" those who are. Pointing it out would probably help those people "get" it who weren't paying attention, and raise distrust in those who were.
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jocce
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Quote:
people start asking "How did you make the click noise?"

I'll go out on a limb here and say that if I get this question I would probably examine my hand motions, body language and structure of my routine. It's the natural action(acting) together with the sound that make it deceptive. I also feel there has to be good motivation for the transfer of one coin at a time from hand to hand. Personally, I prefer to do it on the off beat since there's no logic in drawing attention to, and deliberately executing something as simple as putting two coins in a hand.
gaddy
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Bad magician: "Please note my completely empty hand reaching for an ungimmicked card in this perfectly normal deck of cards..."

Good spectator: "That's not a real hand..."

My guess is that this was a youtube video... I know my advice will fall onto deaf ears when I say; Stop watching them. Unless you're looking for examples of how not to do magic.

PS- when do coins ever go "click"?
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
remf3
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Thanks all for the input. Gaddy's comment is forcing me to come clean on part of my original message. The video in question was actually a borrowed video of a so-called professional magician. The video in question is from a company represented by a flightless aquatic bird and the performer's name rhymes with "Nose-bleeda". I'll not give away more.
Brad Burt
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You are correct in your original post: The idea of the 'clink' is that it supplies it's own justification. Pointing out that coins go 'clink' is like pointing out that cards are made of paper.

Although I am a big fan of Tommy Wonder I believe his "you are always directing the attention of folks" to be unhelpful. Although it may be true it is sometimes more truer than others. It's like in the novel Animal Farm: All the animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. That is to say that the 'direction' I am manipulating when I show two sponge rabbits, place one in my hand and the other in the hand of the spectator is quite a bit different from the 'misdirection' I am using when I 'steal' the small bunnies. I understand his point, but I don't experience the direction I use in performance as a smoothly flowing whole. It is for me more modular and thus easier for me to define the when and how.

All misdirective movement and action flows out of the necessities of the routine one is doing. Generally magicians do not use logical segues from one routine to the next. Rope routine finishes, take bow. Go to next trick, etc. The very movement from one routine to the next would for me break up the context of Mr. Wonders basic premise....but, that's just for me.

All best,
Brad Burt
clarissa35f
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Quote:
On 2008-05-25 06:05, gaddy wrote:
Bad magician: "Please note my completely empty hand reaching for an ungimmicked card in this perfectly normal deck of cards..."

Good spectator: "That's not a real hand..."

My guess is that this was a youtube video... I know my advice will fall onto deaf ears when I say; Stop watching them. Unless you're looking for examples of how not to do magic.

PS- when do coins ever go "click"?


I agree with you Gaddy. With magic you really do get what you pay for, if you pay nothing, you get nothing. One can say you get worse than nothing because you learn the WRONG way to do things, then you need to invest time in unlearning....and relearning properly...a total waste of time.


Quote:
On 2008-05-25 11:01, remf3 wrote:
Thanks all for the input. Gaddy's comment is forcing me to come clean on part of my original message. The video in question was actually a borrowed video of a so-called professional magician. The video in question is from a company represented by a flightless aquatic bird and the performer's name rhymes with "Nose-bleeda". I'll not give away more.


Hmmm..such Obscure clues... I wonder who that could be.. lol.. Anyway, I want to thank you for that info..I was thinking of getting that for my daughter. I'll stick with Roth and Stone.

One question is he saying you the student.." hear the click?" as a way of stressing the convincer that the coin is also with the other coin? So the student is aware of what proves to the audience that the coins are both in the same hand? Or is this part of his patter for lay people?

I think if the former, it makes sense to ask the student watching the DVD if he hears the click. If the latter... Not sure that makes sense in front of lay people.
“Amateurs practice until they get it right.
Professionals practice until they can’t get it wrong.” <Anonymous>
"There is no such thing as magic, there is no other way that could have been done" <Whit Haydn>
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