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Gabor
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On 2008-06-23 11:48, Dominic Reyes wrote:

If you prefer not to have a camera and projector (which could also be used to show some stock footage of Titanic etc to set the mood) you would need to scan them and reprint to make then jumbo size, or alternativly, just use some general stock images from that era, instead of the passanger photos included in White Star. The method, presentation and routine fit perfectly on stage, so its just a scale issue, and easy to set up.

Hope this helps

Dominic


So if I'm correct it means there's no indetectable special something and we pay for the idea that is adaptable to any pictures?
"You can't have everything. Where would you put it?" - Steven Wright
Dominic Reyes
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In the book that comes with White Star, Jim teaches methods that you can apply to alternative pictures. Jim also teaches some versions which use playing cards instead of the photo cards. You could use your own photo cards to make a light hearted version etc. You could have a selection of pictures of general people and have the spectators 'magically' sort them into:

Republicans or Democrats

People that love Marmite and those that hate it (a UK popular TV advert campaign at the moment)

show almost identical pictures of glassed of soda and sort Pepsi from Coke.

etc etc etc

I'm personally trying to think of a version to use for Weddings. Any ideas...?
Marc Spelmann
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Single / Married
Married / Divorced (could be quite funny)

??

Best

MS
It's not goodbye, just see you later...
Robert M
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I just ordered this. Lots of possibilities.

Robert
Dominic Reyes
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Hi Marc Lol, Married/Devorced Smile I've got this funny feeling though that there IS a great presentation idea for weddings out there, but I can't quite get it. Just come up against a mental wall each time I try to hit on it.

Thought about one of the spectators selection turning out to be all single people, and the other spectator has people who are married. But that has a depressing note to any singles/ widows / devorced etc etc at the wedding maybe? Also no real emotional hook there. DOH! Someone anyone...?



Had an idea which might be funny to perform on the right group of girls. Show Photos of guys, and have two girls choose which ones they want to keep. One of the girls ends up with Millionaires the other with guys that are broke. That presentation would get some great laughs from the group, and allow plenty of fun/gags along the way. Ties in well with the 'Joe Millionaire' TV Shows.
goldeneye007
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Thank you silverking for asking clarification concerning the pen and coin. I thought, after a first reading, that they were included in the trick... Of course it's not THAT important, but it's good to know.
Ben
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I just re-read the thread and I really can't understand a few things...

Apparently, for $60, we get a few laminated photographs (which is ok for repeated use, but I don't see why it's necessary otherwise, since an old photo is... an old photo, and usually they're not laminated... anyway...), a manuscript with a method and that's all... So the magician never touches the cards, the specator makes free choices all along, no packet changes, swapping of the cards or whatever (I'm just listing what has been written here), but we still pay for a method...

A reviewer states he will apply the method to the previously released trick "From Hell"... What the "hell" does that mean???? ( Smile ) I hadn't read that when I wrote my first post so that's why I did not react to that at the time but it's really ackward: there's NOTHING to do in "From Hell"... The idea is, imo, quite ingenious, and the trick is... well... completely automatic! I don't want to speak in details about this and the pros and cons of the trick, but those who know about this will understand... That's why I really cannot understand what the person who "wants to apply [the method of White Star] to From Hell" means??? But maybe I missed something...

And people do not really seem to give an opinion on WS... I'm not trying to fish for anything here, and I truly like the idea about the Titanic... But selling a trick at nearly twice the price of another one that works in the same conditions (apparently: cards mixed, nothing to do etc etc... I'm referring to From Hell here) really needs more explanations regarding its advantages. Ok there are old photographs which are laminated, ok there has been a great amount of research, but then other tricks required lots of research and sell for less...

In fact the question is simple: how is it that you can apply a method to another trick that does not require any method (or are we talking about presentation here, which is not the same for me), when on the other hand you can "just sit back if you want and let them read about the people they selected, and watch them discover for themselves what the passangers all have in common" (I'm quoting Dominic here), so apparently there is NOTHING to do...? Something is just not clear to me...

Any comments?

PS: I have a friend who is particularly annoying and cought one of my friends magician when he was doing the "classic" version of OOTW (no it's really not me, I don't like the idea of separating reds and blacks... I find it a bit annoying... that's why this version is interesting). With his knowledge of the old version, will he be able to catch me if I do White Star ?
Ben
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And please don't answer something like : "Well... stick to From Hell then!"...

If I wrote the post it's because I prefer THIS story to the macabre plot of From Hell which I cannot perform for any public. And apparently nothing is gimmicked here... Which is an advantage even if From Hell is examinable... under certain conditions.
Ben
Dominic Reyes
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Hi goldeneye007

I think the reviewer was saying that you could use the cards from 'From Hell if you wanted, but use the method from White Star, if you felt you prefered it. So you could do a titanic presentation or a Jack the Ripper presentation. The method taught in WhiteStar can be applied to other types of image cards.

Ref price: I'm happy to work for Jim and pop onto the forum to discuss White Star, but find discussing its price quite pointless. If you feel its not good value for you, please do not buy it. If you feel you will use it, or some of the variations taught in the book, then its a bargain even without the photo cards.

Not refering to you here goldeneye007 but as a magic dealer/manufacturer for many years now, it still amazes me that there is a tendency to value an effect by the gimmicks included, rather than its usefulness, entertainment value and the quality of the thinking.


Hope this helps

Dominic
aqmagish20
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I have a review. I bpought it two weeks ago. Performed it yesterday for a parlor show of 35 people. It was the most talked about effect in my act that lasted 1/2 an hour. I don't know the other versions except OOTW. I was very suprised by the extent of the reaction. It lived up to the billing in the add. It actually had some comedic bits( I picked great volunteers)up until I revealed that they were passengers on the titanic. Then the tone turned to something different. I do mostly sleight of hand and light hearted fun stuff so it was a great piece in the middle to bring things to a different tone. To use an overused saying, "it packs small and plays big." IT was wellworht the price for me. I have no coneection to the maker/producer or otherwise other than enjoying what they have produced. IT is in my rotation for sure.

Andy
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On 2008-06-25 06:40, Dominic Reyes wrote:

Ref price: I'm happy to work for Jim and pop onto the forum to discuss White Star, but find discussing its price quite pointless. If you feel its not good value for you, please do not buy it. If you feel you will use it, or some of the variations taught in the book, then its a bargain even without the photo cards.

Not refering to you here goldeneye007 but as a magic dealer/manufacturer for many years now, it still amazes me that there is a tendency to value an effect by the gimmicks included, rather than its usefulness, entertainment value and the quality of the thinking.

Dominic


Hello Dominic,

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

I do know that an effect can be cheap and VERY good when an expensive effect can be VERY bad. This is exactly why I tend to think before buying an expensive effect. And this is general of course; when I say expensive, it must be replaced into its context: if you buy a floating table, then of course it's more expensive than buying a packet trick...

That is also why I try to have a good idea of what I'm getting, the conditions, the props etc etc... So as to know what I'm paying for. You say : "If you feel its not good value for you, please do not buy it." I totally agree with that and that's exactly what I'm trying to find out! And till now I do not have sufficient relevant elements that can help me decide. This is why I wrote my post.

Further, as a magician/customer I'm also tired of effects that sit in the bottom of your drawer because the effect doesn't suit you, often because the advertising was misleading (and I'm not an 8-year-old kid who is disappointed because an effect is based on a force or because a bill doesn't really fly...). I fully understand your point about people valuying an effect by the props they get. But then how would you value a CT or a Pass for example. Those techniques could be worth hundreds of $ considering how useful they are to me. But a CT leaflet can cost you less than $20... Again, I see your point from a dealer side, really; but you also have to understand that a lot of people out there do not want to buy something they won't use...

Just to give an example I bought a few years ago the "Glass box prediction". In the ad (at the time, maybe it has changed but I don't think so), it clearly says that the performer does not touch the box (which to some extent is true), that he doesn't touch anything (which is false) and that he is nowhere near the box (which is completely false)... When I received the effect (it was sold for over $100 at the time, I can't remember exactly how much), I only found out that I already performed a very similar effect (same method), so what I got for $100 was a stupid plastic box and a few pages... I don't want to go deep into this effect, it's just to give you an example to explain you how I don't want to feel.

I know we're not discussing about $100 here, but if you add several effects that you never use, it ends up to quit a bit... I really just want to know how good the conditions are, that's all. Please forgive me if you find my post too demanding and again, there's nothing against you Dominic, just exposing my point of view here.

Thank you Andy for your review, but, like others, we just learn that the effect is good... OOTW is also a good effect... That can be performed with photos like DB... Ok... I know... The cards can be shuffled and the performer doesn't do a thing... Anyway, it's good to know that people like it. No bad reviews it seems... Good! I guess you cannot go to deep into why it is good without exposing the method and I respect that.

Thanks again Dominic, I'll think about it. At the moment I think I might give it a try, but I'll wait a little.

A great day to all of you,

Ben
(sorry I didn't sign before, I'll have to do something about this... Smile )
Ben
goldeneye007
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PS:I just checked about the Glass box prediction and I still found on some dealer's website misleading ads... It's not as bad as before (maybe the ad I read in the past can still be found though...). On some websites the ad is correct but on other it's really misleading. I mean by that, that things are stated on the ad that are really false.

The effect is all the same a very good one, but for people that were already using the same technique, it's misleading, that's all...

But sorry, back to the topic... Smile
Ben
Dominic Reyes
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Quote:
On 2008-06-25 08:35, goldeneye007 wrote:
Please forgive me if you find my post too demanding and again, there's nothing against you Dominic, just exposing my point of view here.


No problem at all Ben, I was not offended, you raised an interesting point, that I feel strongly about.

I agree with most of your points. As a magician I too have brought a whole load of rubblish before, and that seems to be totally independent of the price I paid for it. Some cheap gems and some expensive duff's. That's why it makes me smile a bit when people get caught up about the price of an effect needing to be matched by the amount of pages in the booklet, or the number of gaffs included. Personally I think the price tag of a magic item often has an inverse relationship. Often the more gimmicks/gaffs props and materials that can be cut away, the more valuable it is to me.

I'd rather buy a jiffy bag stuffed full of good ideas than bits of gimmicked playing cards.
goldeneye007
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Completely agree with you there Dominic!

Thanks for your comprehension! Smile
Ben
Dominic Reyes
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Thanks for the review Andy. Glad your enjoying it!

Dominic
silverking
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The short answer is that it's laminated cards, instructions, $60.00.....take it or leave it.

My minds not made up yet on "White Star", as there are only one or two real reviews up, and the manufacturer isn't offering answers that effectively stop the kinds of questions being asked over and over, presumably in order not to tip method or elements unique to the effect.

(although for many of us, the methods are already well known and therein lies the series of posts in this thread in which potential buyers try to determine value for our dollar in terms of subtleties and variations of basic methods and handlings.)

Remembering you're talking to potential customers who are trying to talk themselves into buying "White Star", OR folks who will eventually buy this regardless of what's written in this thread....I'd not get too deep into the "if you don't like the price, don't buy it" line of posting.

In the end, threads like this are customers asking questions in possible preparation for purchasing "White Star".
If we weren't interested in buying it, we wouldn't be here. Smile
lunatik
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I think at $45, people would be more apt to snatch it up. At $60, people are having a hard time letting go of their money when very similar effects are a lot cheaper. BUT, I'm not the creator or manufacter so I can't dictate prices lol. I think at the current price, there will have to be a good handful more reviews before people make the plunge. I could be wrong though Smile
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goldeneye007
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I think you're probably right lunatik.

Agree with you silverking.

Both of you sum up quite well the situation! Smile
Ben
Ezzet
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Well ive ordered it and I already have split reality. Once I get it I will put my review up. I never done a review so I hope you'll have patience with it.

Ezzet
Gabor
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Quote:
On 2008-06-26 09:50, Ezzet wrote:
Well ive ordered it and I already have split reality. Once I get it I will put my review up. I never done a review so I hope you'll have patience with it.

Ezzet


All eyes are on you, Ezzet. Smile
"You can't have everything. Where would you put it?" - Steven Wright
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