The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » I'm a real boy! » » Copyright Issues (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next]
mthat
View Profile
New user
St. Paul, Minnesota
7 Posts

Profile of mthat
Thanks for the puppet liability scenario, Tom. As much as I'd like to bite that apple, your hypothetical would be very fact specific, and I'll wait for a rich client to answer that question (I see lots of billable hours in it.).
Its a common misconception that intent, whether its to make money, or is too small to matter are relevant. Under civil copyright law, you have permission or you don't. If you don't have permission, and you aren't included on one of the statutory exclusions, you have violated the owners copyright and are potentially liable.
Copyright issues are everywhere. For example, users posting comments in this forum are permitting the owner of this forum to use the contents of this forum thereof. Although I'm wanting to help explain some basic principles, I also want to maintain control of my work and where/how it is published. To facilitate the discussion, as well as to prevent really long posts, I'll be posting my content offsite, and provide a URL link for more detailed information.
The first IP area discussed will cover basic copyright law, which I hope will be helpful.

See link: http://www.domine.net/gmpa/media.htm

I look forward to your comments, suggestions and questions.

Glenn
axtell
View Profile
V.I.P.
Steve Axtell
2126 Posts

Profile of axtell
Glenn...Your upcoming book sound both exciting and important. Finally so many mysteries will be made clear. How exciting! Our little niche of entertainment is maturing! There are so many of my customers going from part time to professional, or from pro to world famous. This will be very good for us all to become aware of the laws that we work within on a daily basis as entertainers. I'm sure it is a labor of love, as so much of what we do is, so I thank you for writing it. Being that you are also an entertainer makes you VERY aware of our questions and situations.

Oliver...Axtell makes a ton of exclusive one of a kind custom puppets too..... http://www.axtell.com/custom.html

Ax
Axtell Expressions, Inc.
Pro Puppets, Magic & Animatronics
Wanlu
View Profile
Inner circle
Manila, Philippines
3058 Posts

Profile of Wanlu
Cool!!!
"The Old Path"
www.angdatingdaan.org

Wanlu's Affordable Puppets
http://wanlu.net/ventpuppets.html

Wanlu and his Puppets
http://wanlu.net
olivertwist
View Profile
Special user
Nashua, NH
578 Posts

Profile of olivertwist
Great stuff, Steve. I almost wish I could work at your factory! It looks like a great mix of art and engineering.
tacrowl
View Profile
Inner circle
Maryland
1633 Posts

Profile of tacrowl
I've decided to stop posting on this thread unless specifically addressed becasue, some felt I was putting pressure on people. That was never my intent.

My views are stated throughout and I apologize if I dominated any discussion. This is a subject I feel strongly about. One last thing before I go - Ventriloquist Central posted a guest blog about the topic. Bill Nelson & Lee Dean have contributed thoughts there:
http://ventriloquistcentral.com/blog/gue......s-issue/

I appreciate everyone helping to raise awareness of the issue and contributing their opinions. I hope you will continue to have an excellent discussion.
Tom
Tom Crowl - Comedy Ventriloquist

ComedyVentriloquist.com

Learn-Ventriloquism.com

Image
Keith Singleton
View Profile
New user
1 Post

Profile of Keith Singleton
Consider this - if there was no added fee for mass distribution/profits from dvds, Ax's characters would get too heavily exposed, cheapening a lot of great acts that depend on them. There is absolute value in being unique. That is what you are paying for - the uniqueness of getting to make money in media off Ax's figures. That uniqueness "wears off" when they are in cheap amateur videos all over the place; ones that don't deserve to make a profit.

I think of figures, the best of them, as original works of art that are the prime focus of attention in a vent act. If you spend a lot of money producing a high quality video with great lighting and sound, sets, artwork, etc., then why not spend part of that budget (don't do it if you don't have one) on the star of your show? If I spend a lot of dough to produce a video, I want to know these characters are special and not pedestrian. Yet to a beginner vent, one is as good as another, and that is sooo wrong. It is crucial to have just the right figure for your show. To allow a measley fee to stop one from making the best possible choice for one's act just shows a lack of seriousness about the art. It devalues it.
olivertwist
View Profile
Special user
Nashua, NH
578 Posts

Profile of olivertwist
Keith,
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint on the issue. That's an interesting way to look at it.

Oliver
axtell
View Profile
V.I.P.
Steve Axtell
2126 Posts

Profile of axtell
I have met with my team and will be posting more info soon. Check out our webpage tomorrow. http://www.axtell.com

Ax
Steve Axtell
http://www.axtell.com
Axtell Expressions, Inc.
Pro Puppets, Magic & Animatronics
mthat
View Profile
New user
St. Paul, Minnesota
7 Posts

Profile of mthat
After reading some of the other posts, I thought it would be good to interject a section on "Why Intellectual Property Rights Are Good For Creative People" The lengthy segment can be found at: http://www.domine.net/gmpa/media2.htm

The Next section will be on trademarks and why they are important to any performer/artist.

Hope you enjoy them,

Glenn
Potty the Pirate
View Profile
Inner circle
4621 Posts

Profile of Potty the Pirate
I haven't read all the lengthy posts in detail here, so maybe I'm repeating what someone has said. Keith Singleton (four posts above) has a valid point - and further to what he says, imagine if someone were to get a lot of TV coverage using one of Axtell's stock characters....then all the other vents who also use that puppet would have problems whenever they use the puppet. The kids would be shouting out that it's ANOTHER puppet, who's associated with a TV personality....I can see this becoming a very sticky issue.
And as far as I'm aware, all the Axtell puppets have a label clearly stating that media rights are restricted, so I don't understand how so many folks seem to be unaware of this policy.
For the price you pay for these excellent puppets, you can go and make a good living working live shows. Steve will allow you to use the puppets on DVDs etc if you contact him and pay a royalty fee; and my feeling is that if your puppets are likely to get extensive TV coverage, then it would be prudent, and fair to the other vents who use the same figure, to ask Steve to make a custom puppet solely for your own use.
We all know Steve Axtell is a sound guy, and a great artist. I'm quite sure he'll come up with a satisfactory solution that will address most if not all of the issues being discussed on this thread.
Doug.
tacrowl
View Profile
Inner circle
Maryland
1633 Posts

Profile of tacrowl
I wish you had pointed that out before! Even Steve didn't point that out! I honestly had never read the label - which is visible on one figure, but further up inside the other. Apparently I'm not the only one who didn't read it. Looked more like a care tag...

I agree that major exposure would be unfair - but as you stated in the earlier post, in your case it may have allowed the producer to show a routine or puppet you preferred using. Its not an easy balance.

I'm sure that Steve and company gave this a lot of consideration and I'm curious as to how he will handle things. Axtell has always been a leader in the field and concerned about clients - so I've no doubt whatever he decides will be accepted as a new standard. Even if he doesn't change his policy - I've no doubt he will make it more visible and help educate new customers.

Although Axtell kind of became the focus because of the company policy, it was never intended to be just about them. I still think that this a great subject and Glenn's recent additions to explain the rules of Intellectual Property are eye opening. If nothing else - it raised the thought of how custom figures can benefit the professional performer. Maybe that will be the legacy of this thread - creating more custom jobs for all figure makers.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW - I know I said I'd stop posting here - but I was told I hadn't crossed any lines. I'm glad of that.
Tom Crowl - Comedy Ventriloquist

ComedyVentriloquist.com

Learn-Ventriloquism.com

Image
Acecardician
View Profile
Inner circle
New Orleans
1357 Posts

Profile of Acecardician
I was going to stop posting also, since I'm not a vent. But thanks for opening our eyes to the labels on the puppets. This could have stoped a lot of needless posts.(by me!)
I have in my lap 3 Axtell Puppets.
Pedro Parrot has a label that states: "media Rights reserved!"
I have a "Baby Vern" and the label states nothing about media rights, it just states: "All rights reserved"(that's pretty broad)
And I have an amazing Ape, the label also states: "all rights reserved".

This still does not help someone know ahead of time, when they mail order a puppet from a contracted seller.

But now I do know, no excuses!
If I do media, I can do the right thing.

And for my everyday regular shows, I can still pretty much use whatever puppet I like, who-ray!

ACE Smile
Doug Higley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Here and There
7173 Posts

Profile of Doug Higley
There were no 'needless posts'. There were NO concerns mentioned anywhere in this thread that were not valid. All were valid or honest ignorance or stemming from a need to know. No need for anyone to appologize as this was one of the best threads ever on the Café IMO. These are issues that are out there and obviously misunderstood by all sides. We all know where we are coming from now and the final destination will be one of knowledge rather than heresay.

(BTW: 'All Rights Reserved' doesn't cut it as an explaination BUT it can/should direct the pupeteer to the manufacturer for clarity.)

My 2 cents is that if YOU are poised to hit the big time why would you not spring for an original? You would want to use say a 'Vern' that everybody and their Uncle Louie is using? This is a specatacular puppet no doubt about that...and everything one would need for a regional presentation...leave your personal space and you can count on many other 'Verns' being used. It's a 'ready made' and used by countless folks skilled or not. Steve can custom anything you want and it seems to me if you are rising to the big pay check it demands it. Would you use an old 'Charlie'?

I have no intention of going to a big time or even mediocre time but I'm having an 'original one of a kind all rights' done by Wanlu. The price is more than right and the time is right while they get their biz in full gear. Strike while he needs you!! haha.

BUT there seem to be many of you out there who OWE Steve some loyalty and the oportunity to serve your needs with a custom. No? Did you not get your start in a more professional arena through the Axtell puppets? You graduated from your stinky sock to...? Vern? Hello? Wanlu asks, the Ax asks (and I ask in my own area of expertise) only the oportunity. Some of you have vast collections of Axtell creations...one would think it's a no brainer to step up.

Meanwhile though, CLARITY is necessary in all the parameters of the sale.

Great thread...keep it rolling!
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
tacrowl
View Profile
Inner circle
Maryland
1633 Posts

Profile of tacrowl
Hitting the big time has many different meanings for many different people. Just like success. Stock figures still have a valid place in this business. While I could replace Dangerous Duck with a custom piece - Pavlovs' figure started with me and, like a comfortable tool, I enjoy working with it. I would certainly work with Pavlovs if I ever decided to go custom on that figure.

Custom or stock - at any level of the business, the purchaser AND the figure maker should discuss the issue of performance rights, intellectual property rights and copyrights prior to the sale. If you are buying a professional puppet or figure - it is the professional thing to do.
Tom Crowl - Comedy Ventriloquist

ComedyVentriloquist.com

Learn-Ventriloquism.com

Image
axtell
View Profile
V.I.P.
Steve Axtell
2126 Posts

Profile of axtell
Okay you got it! Thanks again for all your input everyone. Here is our new "no fee" media policy for our loyal customers!

Image


Ax
Steve Axtell
Axtell Expressions, Inc.
http://www.axtell.com
Axtell Expressions, Inc.
Pro Puppets, Magic & Animatronics
olivertwist
View Profile
Special user
Nashua, NH
578 Posts

Profile of olivertwist
That looks great to me, Steve. Thanks for being so responsive to your customer's concerns.
Doug Higley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Here and There
7173 Posts

Profile of Doug Higley
Now that's service and showing great respect for the customer. I expected nothing less from the King. The AX has re-entered the building. Smile
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
Ony Carcamo
View Profile
Special user
Manila, PHILIPPINES
610 Posts

Profile of Ony Carcamo
Ax, you rock!
Customer service par excellence!
Ony Carcamo
PHILIPPINES

www.onycarcamo.com
Wanlu
View Profile
Inner circle
Manila, Philippines
3058 Posts

Profile of Wanlu
Merry Christmas everyone!!! Smile

Now who will not love Axtell Expressions. Smile


Thanks Steve Smile

...and thanks Tom and everyone who participated in this thread Smile

Now...let me go to that Axtell website and try to buy a new puppet just to show my appreciation... Smile

http://www.axtell.com/products.html
"The Old Path"
www.angdatingdaan.org

Wanlu's Affordable Puppets
http://wanlu.net/ventpuppets.html

Wanlu and his Puppets
http://wanlu.net
tacrowl
View Profile
Inner circle
Maryland
1633 Posts

Profile of tacrowl
Steve Axtell is truly a class act and I want to thank him for making history with this thread. Everyone knows Steve is considered to be one of the top puppet makers in the world. His custom creations are in demand by name acts like Terry Fator and major production companies. But Steve also takes the time to help and has concern for every customer regardless of their level in the business.

His policy does set a new standard. With Axtell's status as a leader in the industry, performance rights, media rights, copy rights and intellectual property rights will now remain visible, be easier to understand and obtainable by all performers.

And so, as I posted other performer friendly figure and puppet makers - I now happily add Axtell Expressions to the list! You can find them at:
http://www.axtell.com/

and they are highly recommended!
Tom Crowl - Comedy Ventriloquist

ComedyVentriloquist.com

Learn-Ventriloquism.com

Image
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » I'm a real boy! » » Copyright Issues (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.27 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL