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whitjm5 Loyal user of magic in Jacksonville, FL 222 Posts |
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On 2008-06-09 01:57, LobowolfXXX wrote: When you grasp at straws next time, you should try to make it a little less obvious. |
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ziatabari New user 43 Posts |
We are dropping the capitals in crystal method to keep the focus on the trick and not the name.
Additionally this is all for a bit of fun and we do not promote the use of narcotic taking, whatever our personal views may be. All graphics will not elude to any such narcotics. The point is the routines and effects are killer, refreshingly new and from some of the best minds in the field. Additionally the crystal method allows YOU, the purchaser to come up with your own effects on the day you play with the gimmicks and see the DVD. We will shortly be posting more youtube clips with more effects online. Cheers Darius |
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Mad Jake Inner circle All the voices in my head helped me make 2200 Posts |
Oh you've got to be kidding? I'm scheduling an appt. my colon can't take anymore of this smoke blowing! Anything to take the discussion off track and out of focus of the discussion.
Those who know me on a personal level, know why I have the name Mad Jake, in the 28 years I've been using the name not one, not a single person has made comment in a negative fashion saying they were offended and I've performed for 10 of thousands over those 28 years. Now, if you want to get your facts straight, there is this really neato thing on the Café called "SEARCH" suprisingly enough if you do some research right here on the grand ol' Café, you'll find a partial explanation of my screen and stage name. If you need more information, I will be more than willing to share my state of mental health with the public. One of the first things you are taught and given council for is not to be ashamed of your disease or try to hide it from others or make excuses for it, next understand it. To now start attacking someones health issues on a personal level shows how low people will sink. I've already recieved pm's from people about my Rectal Cancer remark and disregard for people with cancer, suprisingly enough the people only had several posts most pertaining to this thread. Well news flash, if you were close to me like a lot of others are on here, I'm a cancer survivor and quite frankly most cancer patients feel they have a right to make remarks, even tounge in cheek remarks. Membership has its priviledges. I was right on about the name of the product, the myth of donation to organizations and others have seen it too. If it weren't the case the product name wouldn't be changed as Mr. Hathaway has stated they are doing. To start comparing it to Coke soft drink and Mad Jake, is beyond grasping at straws, it's the old smoke and mirrors and taking the focus of the discussion/debate way off course. Nice try but no Twinky. Had they been responsible in the naming their product, even leaving it all lower case this discussion would not be taking place, but their mindset on the product name is Crystal METH clear.
Licensed Steve Dusheck Manufacturer and distributor visit www.airshipmagic.com
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-09 10:53, whitjm5 wrote: There's no "grasping at straws" going on, so I guess I should have made my point a little *more* obvious -- Most people have "pet" issues that they get upset about. Obviously (to me) one of Jake's is illegal drugs. Other people get upset about the way mental illness is portrayed; I have no doubt that there are feminist groups that are very upset about women getting sawn in half. Animal rights groups, etc. etc. I'm certainly not upset about a character named "Mad Jake," but if you think that nobody would be, I'd bet you just about any amount that you're wrong. I also strongly suspect that the character name is not intended to upset anyone, to make light of the serious problems that mental illness poses to some people, etc.; it's just a character that he came up with that works for him and his target audience enjoys it (otherwise, he'd try something else). But if mental illness were his pet social issue, instead of drug use, he'd probably have a different character. If it is the case that the character isn't intended to upset, make light of, be insensitive to, etc. mental illness, then it would probably not be a bad idea to bear in mind his own innocent motives when deciding to what degree to go off on the people who are the subjects of this thread.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Mad Jake Inner circle All the voices in my head helped me make 2200 Posts |
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On 2008-06-09 12:04, LobowolfXXX wrote: You refer to a radical spreading drug problem as a "Pet" ? I read into the name for what exactly it was. No ones fingers were forced to the keyboard to join in but when dumb attempts to take the focus off of something that is so Crystal CLEar it gets more and more ridiculous. Maybe the ever growing drug problem should be more peoples "PET". As to my name, the word MAD has been isolated to that of mental illness, well if I'm mentally ill, which is not illegal or a crime, I feel justified in being able to joke about it as it's MY problem. But you should really do a dictionary scan and reference the definition of the word MAD, again selective targeting of a word vs. the name of a drug that has no social value and only destroys everything in it's path to uses it, not to mention, the environmental damage it leaves behind. That's right Crystal METH contaminates the environment from the labs used to create it. Nothing has changed, the website was updated and it appears that the ad copy remains the same, here is an unaltered cut and paste....... Crystal MeTHod is one of the most exciting new developments in card magic for a long time. Complete with the Crystal METHod gimmicks and full instructional DVD Crystal METHod will allow you to... Transfer signatures from card to card Create duplicate initialed cards Perform never before seen “in their hands” effects Stun your onlookers with impossible mentalism routines Plus much much more we simply can't mention until the official release! Pre-order your copy now – you won't be disappointed. Crystal METHod will feature ideas and routines from some of the UK's top close-up workers including.... James Brown Angelo Carbone Steve Dela Lee Hathaway Neil Henry Darius Daniel Young Order now to receive your copy as first priority. Limited numbers available on first run.
Licensed Steve Dusheck Manufacturer and distributor visit www.airshipmagic.com
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Jake, in one post you say you never claimed or insinuated that the naming of the effect will cause drug use, but you also bring the very serious negative effects of meth use into the discussion of the trick's name. So it sounds like you're trying to say it without saying it. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth; I'm trying to understand your position.
Do you think the effect and its name have any impact on drug use? If not, then what do you see as the problem with the name?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Mad Jake Inner circle All the voices in my head helped me make 2200 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-09 12:25, LobowolfXXX wrote: Lobo, you are correct, I never said it would lead to drug use. But why in the world would you associate yourself or product with a name that is a direct link to a killer epidemic of an illegal drug? The answer seems to be Marketing and Shock value. Is this how people need to have their effects recieved into the magic community? Is there a justification that links the name and artwork to this drug as somehow being deemed worthy of the name? As I stated before, if it had been Crystal Method, it would slid right by everyone, but they opened the door to public criticism when they insinuated the narcotic. Why would one need to glorify their creation in magic with this type of relationship?
Licensed Steve Dusheck Manufacturer and distributor visit www.airshipmagic.com
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ziatabari New user 43 Posts |
Mad Jake
don't be a silly Billy- this is a light laugh and wont have any drugs links when launched. The capitals will be removed. We've had many people laugh and say what a great name.. |
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Mad Jake Inner circle All the voices in my head helped me make 2200 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-09 19:21, ziatabari wrote: Funny how all your posts are only about this and you showed up, like I mentioned earlier, shill posting. I don't look at this as a light laugh. The people that have said What a Great Name are probally as naive as you are to think we believe you.
Licensed Steve Dusheck Manufacturer and distributor visit www.airshipmagic.com
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
Now that we've exhausted every argument on the topic I suppose one question remains; will The Magic Café advertise these products if asked?
POOF!
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
From Latest and Greatest forum:
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On 2008-06-09 11:41, ziatabari wrote: Which offended people gave good feedback?
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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mcmc Veteran user 310 Posts |
Lambast me if you disagree, but I think:
1) A product's name has behind it the implications: a) the creator spent time and effort coming up with it b) the name is pleasing to the creator c) if the name has a double entendre / pun in it, the associated ideas/things/verbs/etc. are also pleasing or at least acceptable to the creator 2) The above products have 'crystal meth' and 'cannabis' clearly in the name; regardless of the supposed benefits of the latter or places of manufacture of the former, both are illegal substances. Further, all my friends who tried the latter have quit due to it making them feel slower in mind, making them waste money, making them feel unmotivated, and the one friend I had who got into the former, had to go into a mental institution. Therefore: a) the creators are ok with these illegal substances b) the creators, by association and allusion, are saying that these are substances that are appropriate and condonable at worst, and at best that they are ok to have a good laugh and chuckle over 3) By doing the above, they may not be causing anyone to go out and snort or smoke the stuff, but they are contributing, in however small a way, to an air of acceptance and permissivity toward marijuana and methamphetamine. To put it bluntly, I think it is immature and in poor taste to put such names to magic effects. And I can readily picture a group of magicians for whom such names would be acceptable, unobjectionable, or even laudable, but passing the ethical bar of a small group of people does not make it Ethical in the generally accepted, or if you would have it, ordained, definition of the word. |
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts |
On June 9, 2008 Ziatabari states:
***As mentioned, we have dropped the capitals, making it crystal method*** Other members of this group have made similar claims in this and the other topic about CM and yet as of this post that remains untrue! |
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
An effective marketing plan would be to give the product a name that is easy to remember, like a catch phrase and make it easy to find. It would show up at the top of the fist page if you did Google search. If you Google; "magic crystal method" or "magic cannabis” what do you find? The name of the product should help sales, it should. It is not apparent that this type of thought was used in this case. Maybe it is a good for magic; it will keep it under the radar, when doing a general search.
The marketing plan here seems to be; even bad publicity is good for sales. Hope it works, you can name it “donkey dung” if it will help sales but if the name does not create more sales, it is not a wise move. Mad Jake, I think you are a good guy, make great products and have made some great post here on the Magic Café but in some way your comment here, are like the pot calling the kettle black, Your avatar put me off and scared my son, it has only been after reading your post and the post of others about you and your products that it has become just OK. It is really good, you don’t have your avatar picture blasted all over you web sit, that would really be a turn-off. I know some people will like it and will get them to look at your web site, but just like the name “crystal method” it is a negative.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-09 09:48, balducci wrote: someday the mushmouths and crackheads are gonna take back their names! Oh, wait, no they won't... Because they'll soon be dead or in jail.
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
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On 2008-06-09 20:39, kregg wrote: hmmm... Moment of truth, eh? I just wonder. I thought the cannabis thingie was already advertised here, though. Someone here can prove me wrong, if they like.
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Mad Jake Inner circle All the voices in my head helped me make 2200 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-12 13:28, Tom Bartlett wrote: What has become just ok? My avatar vs. Crystal METH? LOL That's not even close to calling the Kettle Black. There is nothing wrong with the name crystal method, it's Crystal METHod where the METH is capped. I have yet to have anyone say my Avatar has made them rush out and buy clown make up or see a shrink.
Licensed Steve Dusheck Manufacturer and distributor visit www.airshipmagic.com
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
A little bit of 'shooting the messenger' going on here.
Wouldn't it be better to counter the arguments Mad Jake has made than to point at his name and avatar (which I think has real character) It seems anyway as though those responsible think he has a point. They do claim they are dropping the caps and any drug references. Destiny |
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts |
They keep SAYING a lot of things Destiny but the actions never seem to follow!
As for the "Pot calling kettle black" Jake's Avatar vs Crystal METHod......... C'mon Tom, where the heck did that come from? As for scaring little kids, what are little kids doing reading the Café forums? That should fall under responsible parenting I'd say! We do have quite a few juveniles around here but anyone one young enough to be frightened by a picture???? |
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
My son was 12 when his interest in magic started and Jake has many posts “New to magic”. Also as I said before, I to was put of by his satanic looking avatar at first. You need to reread my post and apply it the way it was intended, as applied to marketing only.
On the other hand, do you really think this trick because of it name will directly result in someone one using meth or just attract drug users?
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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