What boggles the mind...at least mine anyway is that the creators, whether in actuality or out of some self induced anesthesia, are trying to get us to believe that they had no idea the names were drug references or at least were not making references to drugs when they named the effects. My favorite explanation of the name so far has been that of the band "The Crystal Method". I'm actually a fan of that group (duo) and in a documentary they say outright the band's name is a drug reference (in all fairness the band has since made reference that the name came from a girl called "Crystal...but I digress).

To the creators...own up to it. What's the big deal anyway? This reminds me of an energy drink that is sold called "Cocaine". The FDA couldn't stop it from being sold but the company that created it doesn't shy away from why they chose the name. Heck they even added a throat numbing agent to give the 'user' (my choice of words) a feeling like the actual drug would!

Finally if it (The Crystal METHod) really is a great idea and can be used to transfer signatures and more while being practical... why risk alienating consumers?
Let the product do that not the name.


For anyone who actually cares: I am not endorsing the use of illegal drug names for magic effects or energy drinks for that matter. I do believe the creators and the marketplace share a symbiotic relationship and each have certain responsibilities to the other.

If you see the DVD that goes with Cannabis you'll see the entire thing is drug themed. To say otherwise is a lie.

Madjake - I doubt you'll read or respond to what I'm about to say because you seem so wrapped up in your own narrow viewpoint as to eliminate the possibility of sensible debate. Your strategy seems to be a clear-cut “I'm right, you're wrong” stance combined with dismissing any arguments that don't fit your agenda as “blowing smoke up your ***. Well let me tell you mate, if others are blowing smoke you're hosting a full-on fireworks display. Your post is littered with inaccuracies and mis-information, so much so that it's difficult to know where to start.

So you taught your son that if a close friend has a drug problem, the correct approach is to disown them and hand them into the law. Nice. I'd hate to think how you treat you enemies. That said, I'm pleased to hear you're such an advocate of the zero tolerance approach to drug abuse as it neatly illustrates your ignorance of the subject. Zero tolerance doesn't work. After 30 years of zero tolerance the USA now has the worst drug problem in the world. More than half of the US's huge prison population is made up of drug offenders, convicted of largely non-violent offences. You know, I'm really not about to go into an essay on why zero tolerance doesn't work – look it up. Anyone who thinks this is an effective method of dealing with a drug epidemic needs their head tested.

Another inaccuracy in your statement – Cocaine is *not* still widely used in hospitals, the drug they use is Novocaine, it's a different drug. Not that it makes any difference other than to raise more doubt over your “facts”.

Then comes the creme-de-la-creme, a paragraph so outrageous in it's inference I actually had to read over it several times....you say...

“While the USA combats to beat this awful product killing everyone from young children to older adults by limiting the ability to get the chemicals and ingredients to make the product, new countries have been mass producing the key ingredients and channeling them to the states and world wide. The ingredients are now being mass produced in China, Asia and India. One could look at this as cultures actually creating Weapons of Mass Destruction, this is how bad the Meth problem is around the world”

What a load of rubbish. I'm not about to list the ingredients to Crystal Meth here but be assured the chemicals are readily available in any hardware store. You do not need to look to countries like China, Asia or India to blame for that. Weapons of Mass Destruction? Don't make me laugh....look no further than your own front door - the USA has the biggest arms budget in the world. It's also the biggest exporter of weapons worldwide. Outnumbering China by a massive 20 to 1. Why did the US government think Saddam Hussein had WOMD – because Donald Rumsfeld sold them to him! Ignorance, prejudice, greed, misinformation – these are the real WOMD in the world we live in today.

Then you move onto GTA. Let me ask you why is it ok for you to use a simili to support your argument but when anybody else does it it's dismissed as “blowing smoke up your ***”.

Nevertheless you urge the reader to “Research closely and see how the decay of society is making these types of games acceptable “ and how these video games affect the impulses of the young. Rubbish once again. The notion that video games have led to an increase in youth violence is a myth. For more information see http://www.pbs.org/kcts/videogamerevolut......ths.html

Then you go onto quote (or to be correct, misquote) Roger Waters. Laughable really considering if you ever went to a Pink Floyd concert most of the people there were probably high on something. Waters merely referred to an “abused shell”. Floyd lyrics are notoriously open to interpretation but if we are to assume that he was referring to the Liberty Bell then I assure you the real abuse of liberty and freedom is not from the citizenship so much as the people in power who relentlessly infiltrate the media with propaganda and untruths designed to suit their agenda.

As Lobowolf point outs well, the legality issue of Methamphetamines vs. Alcohol/Tobacco or Gambling is neither here nor there to making an informed and educated decision towards them. Basing your moral stance on legislation is ridiculously short-sighted. Are you saying then if you lived in a country where a particular drug was legal or no legislation existed then provided you asserted the correct amount of responsibility and awareness it would be ok? What a ludicrous way to formulate your opinions.

Morality has nothing to do with legislation. Morality is not a fixed thing, it changes it's parameters culturally and historically over time – for example look at Ancient Greece. To this day we still take most of our fundamental principles about ethics, aesthetics, philosophy, medicine, science etc from Ancient Greece – yet in Ancient Greece a relationship between two men was considered the highest, most ethical, moral form of love there could be. Yet to the contrary George Bush outlawed gay marriage across the USA. As Shakespeare wrote “nothing is good or bad – thinking makes it so”.

As for the comment about magic taking a serious decline largely due to the younger crowd that is frankly an insult to the vast majority of younger magicians. I work closely with the YMC here in London and also have a couple of young students who I teach magic to. There is some exceptional young talent here in the UK and it's no surprise that Alan Shaxon president of the Magic Circle recently commented that “the future of magic is in good hands”. The current trend for shock magic, street effects and body mutilation (I assume you are referring to effects such as Wounded/SAW/Bruised/Branded etc) is simply an evolution of our art. They do not harm anybody and are nothing more than a bit of fun with an added shock element. Sorry if they don't fit your ideology of a bloke in top hat'n'tails elegantly producing cards and doves but they are equally as valid as an expression of performance art.

So why the name Crystal Method? As some have speculated it's indicative of the method of the effect. There is no imagery of drugs either on the DVD or the cover. There is nothing about the entire product and it's method which promotes drug use or glorifies it. There is a disclaimer on the DVD to this effect. Given the method and the fact it's a follow on from The Cannabis Effect it seemed a fun name to use. Nothing more, nothing less. In hindsight, given some of the more reasoned arguments and discussion we agree that capitalizing the Crystal Meth part of the title was a poor decision and consequently this will be dropped from the finished product and future marketing.

Yes it's a controversial name and for us this does two things. It makes it memorable and gets it talked about. It also promotes discussion and upsets a few people with fixed notions or old-fashioned ideas. If it makes people think and opens their eyes a bit then good. You may not like it – nobody is forcing you to buy it – but please, don't try to blame us for the the world's drug problems.

I'm not even going to address the bulk of your rambling diatribe Lee but your "facts" about "Novocaine" is way off base and Jake DID in fact reference "Procaine" which is generically referred to as Novocaine! Novocaine is rarely used today as Lidocaine has pretty much replaced it! These are also primarily used in dentistry not hospitals!
Jake is his own man and can handle himself without my help so that is not the reason for this post. This post is simply to address the fact that if you want to talk smack, HAVE YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!

Mick

what was that about having your facts straight?

***Posted: Jun 4, 2008 11:53am
but these inane responses to Cocaine vs. Meth, well Meth has never ever been a medical drug, while cocaine is still used, but in a new form Procaine.

Jake***

My facts are straight!

Mick

From what I've read, procaine is NOT a new form of cocaine. It is a precursor to cocaine.

But I'll defer to any certified medical doctor in the room.

That's getting nit picky at best balducci! Cocaine came before procaine! I personally read it as "A" new form of drug that has replaced cocaine! But as with every other proponent of CRYSTAL METHod you are dodging the issue! None of this has any bearing on the issue so I see no need to argue trivial semantics! And for what it's worth, I do have the initials after my name that qualify me to speak with some authority on the subject of pharmaceutical drugs!

Actually, that was my first post in this thread and I am not a proponent of CRYSTAL METHod just in case you think I am. Actually, I haven't given it any thought, so I have no opinion on the matter as yet.

And I only made my nit picky post insomuch as your own seemed rather nit picky to my own eyes. NB the winky smiley face below.

;)

Nahhhh man, just sticking up for my friend Jake! No harm no foul!

The decision to name the effect "CRYSTAL METHod" was stupid. Attempts (after the fact) to justify a stupid decision are typical human behavior.
I have done lots of stupid things in my life, and then tried to come up with arguments to make me appear less stupid. It rarely works.

Love it... 3 pages of rant over THE NAME of an effect. Will it affect sales? Maybe, maybe not. Should some of the people that have spent hours and hours furiously debating this issue feel ever so slightly embarrassed by their behavior... YES!

If you feel that I am not taking this seriously enough, then your right. Perhaps the real problem here is that you are.

Bubble

I guess you are only refering to those with whom you disagree - or you would have to include yourself.

If you are not interested in the discussion why don't you METH off and leave us to our converstaion.

Destiny

As I have a sense of humour about myself I am happy to add my own comments in. I am involved in this conversation. My aim is to bring some levity to a rather up it's own **** thread.

If I read correctly, someone has even contacted the anti meth society warning them about this... This just proved how idiotic this has got. Next time I see a magician tie up his assistant I will contact Amnesty

Bubble

I have already reported the card workers to the Environmental Agency - do you know how many forests have been logged to enable those dudes to fling cards all over the place?

Our planet is dieing and it is all the fault of those cardician people.

Destiny

You have just restored my faith in the living dead!!

Mr. Hathaway,

Thank you for assuming I wouldn’t even respond to your post.

Without weaving anymore politics into this thread, I have no personal or business
Agenda in this debate. The only exception is the questionable name of Crystal METHod.

If this was a mere attempt to just create controversy, then you succeeded and at the same
Time showed how little taste you have in our craft having to name it or imply to that of a killer drug. It’s a disgrace to our art and shows a lack of courtesy for a serious issue.

Do you homework Mr. Hathaway, my list of leading export countries are listed with DEA enforcement agencies both domestically and abroad.

You also assume, I have the I’m right, you’re wrong attitude, that’s something you read into and not what I said.

What about the statement that proceeds from this are going to drug addiction support groups? What kind of public BS is this? NO drug addiction groups are going to take funding from effects named after drugs.

This discussion or debate was not out anything but the way that the promotion of the name of Crystal METHod was being emphasized and the crystalline type artwork on the website.

I suggest not trying to name something and if someone objects make them out to be the bad person because of the public awareness of a killer drug problem. You fail to take a social responsibility towards the naming of the effect and try to hopscotch with excuses that funds are being donated and that the implication of the product naming and artwork
Is being misperceived. Horse Twinkies!

As stated I have been crafting for about 20 years, never have I ever had to resort to naming an effect or any product for shock value or referring to something that is a world wide problem.

The method is the way the name is transferred to the card? Ok, on your drawing board maybe you can devise a devise that transfers some moral conscience of what you name your product and how it reflects the art and craft of Magic.

When you come down off your Crystal METHod, take the time to do some research in regards to the damage it does and actually the statements of Asia, India and China being now the main supplier of the necessary component of the drug. Better yet, next time you come to a gun fight, bring a gun, not a knife.

Yes it's a controversial name and for us this does two things. It makes it memorable and gets it talked about. It also promotes discussion and upsets a few people with fixed notions or old-fashioned ideas. If it makes people think and opens their eyes a bit then good. You may not like it – nobody is forcing you to buy it – but please, don't try to blame us for the the world's drug problems.
[/quote]

Self serving, ignorance comes to key after re-reading this statement. You are indeed a disgrace to magic and social awareness. Pathetic at best...pffft.

What is it that makes some people think, that naming an effect after a drug (the drug name is "hidden" in the context of the effect name), will actually get people who wouldn't do drugs to take it?

In my opinion there are two kinds of people in the western world,

1. People which feel good about themselves (no need for instant euforia), and are educated and assertive to make healthy future-based decisions. These are the people which find this name a symbol, because that is what a name is, and that is also what makes them intelligent. (Short description - most of you know how you are yourself)

2. Then we have the people which are not very educated, and base a lot of their desicions on what needs they have in the moment without thinking about the consequences. These people are driven a lot by instincts and emotions, and have little objectivity and common sense. This is the potential drug-abusers, which seeks instant euforia by various means. If this cannot be obtained by means like affirmation of one's peers, then the drug is an alternative to accomplish the same rush. They usually "don't give a *** about anything", because that will create no responsibility on their part.

Could this product eventually promote or underline the availability of MethAmphetamine to Person 2.?

Yes - but if the author of the product choose to name the effect something non drug related, it wouldn't change the mind of that person, and he/she would eventually go different ways, beacuse of the very nature of that person.

Read this carefully! The name of the effect would not change a thing.! The problem is so much deeper rooted...

If you are a Person 1. you will be able to see, that the name could symbolize something like "A strong effect, that you have to use with caution, because of the impact it has on the audience."

And by the way, I have already placed my order for the Crystal METHod!

Tjernobyl

PS. Let's not start a discussion about my screenname..

Who cares what the effects are called as long as there great effects! The audience member your performing to doesn't know the name of the effect. I think it's a very clever marketing idea and one that people (Who don't take life to seriously) will enjoy and make them smile! It's certainly a head turner and this thread proves that the names of the effects are doing exactly what there probably intended for. To get people talking about the effects, wiether there talking about the effects for the right or wrong reasons, there still talking about them. The fact your complaingin about the name of them and creating a nice long thread like this is actually helping to promote the name you don't like. Ironic isn't it!

JamieD