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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Have a care what you set into our recorded history - Elmsley's count can be found in his "ghost" trick - hence the name "ghost count". Consider what you may lead the next round of items to be called where they use your props or ideas. How about these:
Crystal MethDeal, Crystal MethSource, Crystal MethImproved, Crystal Meth - Second hit comes free... I almost hope this is not truly an original idea product so the item can be re-connected to our literature without need of further shame. BTW my grandmother had Velvet Underground albums including the one with the Banana (VUwNico)
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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JamieD Inner circle London 1798 Posts |
*A Standing Ovation from me Mr Hatheway* Can't wait for Crystal method!
TORCE - VMRS - DARK SERIES
www.JAMIEDAWS.CO.UK |
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spatlind Special user still moving 863 Posts |
How can you have 1 post twice? And why is it here?
Actions lie louder than words - Carolyn Wells
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature - Frank Lloyd Wright. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
I love the idea of "so what if they are negative? As long as they talk about you!" line. When I write a negative review the creators/releasers don't seem to think it is too great of a thing.
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Mad Jake Inner circle All the voices in my head helped me make 2200 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-08 21:20, JamieD wrote: If you're gonna come into a discussion and shill post for your your buddy, at least learn to spell his name right. "Hey Rocky, wanna see me pull a rabbit out of my hat?" LOL
Licensed Steve Dusheck Manufacturer and distributor visit www.airshipmagic.com
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Mad Jake Inner circle All the voices in my head helped me make 2200 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-08 21:09, JamieD wrote: What a pathetic example to promote and lead by, especially in our field. I'm not so sure it's complaining I've been doing vs. out right disgust for the lack of respect for public awareness and the lack of respect for the art of magic.
Licensed Steve Dusheck Manufacturer and distributor visit www.airshipmagic.com
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whitjm5 Loyal user of magic in Jacksonville, FL 222 Posts |
Even if it was a GREAT trick, I wouldn't buy it because of the name. If it's a crappy trick - I highly doubt anyone will buy it just because of the name. I think the double-edged sword may cut the creator's profits with either side. :-\
I fully support free speech and the right of the creator's name the trick(s) whatever they like, but I think it's important to remember that while we may be free to make decisions, we are not free FROM decisions we make. |
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts |
***while we may be free to make decisions, we are not free FROM decisions we make.***
Man, I really like that line! Mind if I use it sometime? |
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Mad Jake Inner circle All the voices in my head helped me make 2200 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-08 21:09, JamieD wrote: Sure, what a great concept. Who cares if I name an effect John Wayne Gacey and target it as a children's effect, as long as it sells and people talk about it, that makes it ok. I've gone through my posts and never have I insinuated or claimed that the effect would cause the use of drugs, as usual more smoke blowing up the rectal cavity and avoidence of moral responsibility. 4 of my major vendors have already decided NOT to carry the effect based on the name along and the damage is already done. Think before you act on naming your products and you don't alienate your market like you have here. The mention of Fun of the name and cute has been mentioned as a defense. My god, who's your marketing agent? Nevermind, I think we already know.
Licensed Steve Dusheck Manufacturer and distributor visit www.airshipmagic.com
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whitjm5 Loyal user of magic in Jacksonville, FL 222 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-09 00:16, MickeyPainless wrote: Hey. Free country, free speech. Use it! |
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abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
I didn't really want to get involved in this but now I think I am going to.
South Africa has one of the highest crime rates in the world and on every corner there are signs that say "don't do crime" "crime doesn't pay". Think of an animal...don't think of a giraffe. Which animal came to mind first? The choice of name was a poor attempt at making magic more "hip" Don't like it. Won't buy it. |
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Jamie D. Grant V.I.P. as seen in Ripley's Believe It or Not! Twice! 2413 Posts |
Ethical/moral issues aside, I don't think it's a smart business move at all. You're weighing generating interest versus making sales, which a lot of the time come from reviews. I, for one, wouldn't review a effect with drug allusions in its title.
Also, your target demographic, I might think, with all it's tricks to choose from, would probably choose something less likely to get them in trouble...maybe? Let me try to think back to my teenage years. I order something online that will arrive while I'm at school (unlike purchasing a Crystal Method album which I could hide myself)and my parents recieve it. Odds are they're going to ask what it is I bought. Would they care? Probably. So yeah, I might make a split decision to order something else. Just brainstorming. Poor business tactics. My vote: -1 ~jdg
TRICK OF THE YEAR: Industrial Revelation, BOOK OF THE YEAR: The Approach, The AIP Bottle, and my new book Scenic 52, can all be found over here: SendWonder.com
Kindness takes practice. My TEDx talk |
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts |
***Hey. Free country, free speech. Use it!***
But always proper to ask permission! Thanks, Mick |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-09 00:47, Mad Jake wrote: 1. What on earth are you talking about "avoidance of moral responsibility"? Whose responsibility to do what, exactly? 2. If you don't contend that name of the effect will have any impact on drug use, what do you see as the problem?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
And...
3. What would your response be to the family of someone with psychosis or another form of serious mental illness who thought that "Mad Jake" as a character name was rude, disrespectful "pathetic" (to use an apparent favorite word of yours), bad for the image of magic, etc?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts |
Based on what I've read by CM's creators and proponants I doubt that a thourough business plan was implemented here and if there was one I think a section or 2 of Marketing 101 may have been skipped!
Hypothetical: Target market is 35,000 Café members and just 25% are put off by the name, the wording or the general attitude of those envolved. (25% of of 35,000 is 8750 potential customers). If each of them took the same stand I have in saying they would not purchase CM or any previous or future offerings at say $15 bucks each times say 3 tricks......... Just shy of $350,000.00 in potential sales lost! One comment made by a professor of mine almost 30 years ago still sticks in my mind in every business decission I make today..... "One OOOPPPSSSSS rings a lot louder than 10 ATTA BOYS"! Mick |
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Zerububle Elite user Poole 430 Posts |
While the name may not have been the best choice in hindsight I still find the response strange...
What ever damage the name has caused their business pales into insignificance against the damage being sought by a few here. You are discouraging sales based solely on it's name. You don't even know what the product is yet. How narrow minded of you! How pathetic! Now that the CM boys have removed the caps from the title it is just Crystal Method. A completely innocuous name with no reference to any drug... can I assume that you will all retract your venom and bless what could turn out to be a *** good effect? If this was ONLY because of the drug highlighted in the name there should be no problems backing down... or do you have some higher moral tones to voice? Bubble |
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JamieD Inner circle London 1798 Posts |
In regard to my prvious post, I am Currently at University studying for a degree at Performance so A) I am one of the young people that are interested in this trick and who is buying the trick. Funnily enough intill I came into this thread I hadn't even thought about the name. During my degree we are taught many things about promotion of yourself, be it bad or good. In the acting industry, and I'm sure there are other actors here in this thread, there is a very common saying "There is no such thing as bad publicity". This was the point I was trying to make. Most people are most probably going to take an appraoch to the name like I did. Not think to much about the name, it's just a harmless piece of fun. It never ever came to my mind that it could promote drug use. I'm not sure how this thread got onto the whole drugs in which country and which country is more dnagerous and stuff cos at the end of the day were on about this effect. The first thing I thought about the name in all honesty was it was quite clever. I thought it must have something to do with the method as apposed to anything else. Much like Cannabis effect refered to the trick itself also. The name of a Magic Trick is just as bad as kids carrying Toy guns or giving them fake cigarets. Theres lots to get in a uproar about but that's the world we live in. I'd prefer to give my child a magic trick called Crystal Method then a fake toy gun or knife. I don't think the name is doing any hard to anyone and I think that the trick is great as people should look past the name and to toward the effect because at the end of the day it's the effect that does matter. As for my poor spelling. It's because I type fast and I just recived a new laptop so I'm not quite used to typing on it yet so I appologise.
JamieD
TORCE - VMRS - DARK SERIES
www.JAMIEDAWS.CO.UK |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-09 01:57, LobowolfXXX wrote: Wow, I think that is a great post. See, these magic forums are where a training in law can really pay off! You've actually been wasting it in a law office and / or courtroom? Seriously, I have no doubt whatsoever that some mental health associations WOULD object to 'Mad' Jake's name so let no one think your question is only a hypothetical one. Incidentally, it appears that there are numerous 'Mad Pride' groups: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/fashion/11madpride.html "Just as gay-rights activists reclaimed the word queer as a badge of honor rather than a slur, these advocates proudly call themselves mad; they say their conditions do not preclude them from productive lives." Also see http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/m......ellbeing "Far from shrinking away in their flats as you might expect, these individuals are all actively promoting madness, creativity and individuality through organisations such as Mad Pride and Bonkersfest, and language lies at the heart of the battle ... Their answer is to reclaim those terms that have been used against them as insults." I'll shut up and be quiet now.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Zerububle Elite user Poole 430 Posts |
Nutter...
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