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Jeff Corn Inner circle Las Vegas 1190 Posts |
If Luke stood up and said "Jeff Corn is a scumbag" I'd being very interested in discussing it with him. A lot of people consider reading palms and tarot to be dispicable. If they didn't, guys like James Randi would be out of business. Randi says the same thing and then goes on to challenge them, yet he's revered by most of the magic community. My feeling is that the performer can use any presentation he wants to get the message that he wants across. If I had an issue with it, I'd confront him and we'd put our differences out in the open. I'm good friends with people that I truly disagree with on certain aspects. The local shop has a psychic reader working in a small room attached too it. I don't agree with readings, so I don't go in. Out of respect for her and other I'm associated with, I wouldn't use the scumbags presentation, but Luke doesn't tolerate things he disagrees with. I commend him for having the guts to say things that may be offensive solely for the fact that that's what he believes.
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
Jeff, I understand that you want to defend your pal. But here is the question: does his unexcusabilty warrant an excuse from you and his buddies??
You keep saying that you don't "keep up with" the latest and greatest. Maybe, you should! If lukey boy is your friend then say so. You are comming across as a lackey for "guess who". If you believe that magicians should be be gutted! then you are not one of us!!!
Magic is a vanishing art.
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rpierce Inner circle New Hampshire - USA 1220 Posts |
So, has anyone tried this out, Luke's way? Like most of you I saw thru the trailers and knew the methods, I purchased this to see his handling and fine points. I have never tried Phase 2, looks like it could backfire, does anyone have any practical experience with this?
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Jeff Corn Inner circle Las Vegas 1190 Posts |
I love how you all assume that, just because I stick up for the right of any performer to perform however he wants, that I must be a friend of Luke's or a lackey. It shows why so many people refuse to look here anymore. If someone has three posts and makes a post giving credit to someone that's not liked, they're torn into for being new or accused of being that person trying to sell more items. If someone sticks up for a performers freedoms, he must be a friend of the performer, especially if it's someone that's no longer liked around the forum. I've never met Luke. I'm a fan of his work, but that's about it. Explain how I come off as a lackey. You make that statement, but don't really back it up. I defend lots of people that aren't given the same rights as others. I said it in my post, James Randi says the same stuff all the time and no one bothers him. You ignored that part. Don't skip the parts of my posts that don't give you anything to try to turn around. I understand that it's cool to bash Luke here, I know that, but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't get the same liberties in his show that we all get. Ken Weber got amazing reviews for Maximum Entertainment. My opinion on the matter of what you say was greatly influenced by that. Maybe you should give it a read. It's a good book. It would probably help you out quite a bit.
And when did I say that I don't keep up with current magic or think that magicians should be gutted?
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Jeff do you mind if I ask how old you are?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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Jeff Corn Inner circle Las Vegas 1190 Posts |
I'm 23.
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Jeff, we'd also like to know your hat size. It's interesting how you continue to skirt around that information in your posts!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
I knew that wouldn't get by YOU Christopher, well done!
And Jeff, I assumed you were much much younger. Would I be correct in saying you're a blue collar worker?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Bob, this is about mentalism, what the $@#% does the color of Jeff's shirt have to do with it?
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Harry H Inner circle 1526 Posts |
Watched this yesterday-note to Luke I didn't buy it!-the man is as dull as you like with his presentation.The audience seemed bored as well.
It's basically one simple effect dragged out for a whole DVD.Boring. |
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Jeff Corn Inner circle Las Vegas 1190 Posts |
I agree with Chris, but no not really. Actually, I'm a member of the US Air Force. Enlisted, so I guess in reality, I am the blue collar of the group. At the same time, that's also where my dedication to freedom of speech comes from.
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
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tian_ci Elite user Knoxville, TN 477 Posts |
I have this for sell in the used dvd section. =)
Shameless plug! sorry... |
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-08-14 10:11, Jeff Corn wrote: I was just having some fun with the clothes color joke. Did this thread ever have a real review anywhere? Jeff, thanks for keeping the skies safe. Keep 'Em Flying! Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-08-14 15:21, Christopher Kavanagh wrote: Chris: Yes, it has several. Jeff: I disagree with you on what performers can and should say. In fact, the major networks, FCC, American Press, and many nightclubs disagree with you. Do you remember what happened with Michael Richards? How about Don Imus? There are many cases of people using derogatory terms and hate speak as humor. Free speech is a great right to protect, but so is protection from discrimination. Tony Iacoviello |
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Jeff Corn Inner circle Las Vegas 1190 Posts |
Chris, I knew you were joking, but that doesn't make it untrue. Thanks, by the way. The American public is no where near as supportive as it use to be.
Tony, I totally understand where you're coming from. At the same time, I completely disagree with people having to restrain themselves because of the fear of offending someone. I grew up knowing that you should be polite, but also have a sense of humor. People are far to easily offended and it stems from very weak parenting skills. Michael Richards and Don Imus said something that offended people and got in trouble for it. I thought it was ridiculous both that they would say something of that context in the positions they were in, but also that people didn't want to give them a chance. Things slip. It happens. I'm very torn on censorship. I think public decency is a must, but racial slurs and calling someone that takes money from others by claiming to be speaking with dead relatives is a totally different scenario. Racial slurs are fueled by hatred and, generally, misinformation. Calling someone a scumbag because you feel that they prey on the sorrow of others is totally acceptable by me.
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Sorry Jeff, but if you watch the whole thing, it has nothing to do with the taking of money (he elaborates on this in both performance and explanation sections). As you say, "Racial slurs are fueled by hatred and, generally, misinformation” the same thing can be said of Luke. He said that my friends were “scumbags” because of their religious belief system, and that I am a scumbag because I do palm readings as entertainment. When we do come face to face, and we will, he will be asked to explain himself!
I do find it interesting that one who is under so much fire himself for taking money from people under false pretenses would aim the same allegations at segment of the population. I also found it interesting that one so against the “psychic” practices passed himself off as one of them in the last ¼ of the DVD, doing exactly what he had said was wrong. Tony Iacoviello |
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Jeff Corn Inner circle Las Vegas 1190 Posts |
Penn and Teller had a guy on their Bull! ESP show that was a reformed psychic reader and went through an entire act of telling people he was doing readings before revealing himself at the end. Luke's not the first to pretend he has powers during a performance and you have no idea if he came clean at the end or not. As for calling your friends scumbags, I'm a Christian myself, and people call us scumbags all over the world. People have killed Christians for centuries. I understand people not liking you because of your religious beliefs, but I still feel that he has the right to perform in whatever way he feels comfortable with. If I don't agree with a performance, it's my right to leave that performance.
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
I'm A Christian and I can tell you after hanging out with them, it's easy for me to understand why they were thrown to the lions.
Stranger: Sir, may I ask, are you a Christian? Chris: Yes I am Stranger: Do you know that Jesus died for your sins? Chris: I went to Catholic School for 10 years, this is the first time I've heard this. You're saying saying the guy that cuts my lawn died for my sins? Stranger: No, not Jesus the gardener. I'm talking about Jesus, The Savior. Chris: Oh, that guy. Ya, I was talking to him this morning. He said he hates name droppers and I should punch anyone in the face that uses his name to start a stupid conversation.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Jeff:
As a military member (USAF) and a Christian minister I have been all over this planet. I've been in Asia, Africa, the Middle East, Europe, and throughout North and South America and have never been insulted because of my faith. I'm sorry if you have been, but to be honest, I cannot understand your statements to that affect. They directly contradict my experiences as to what you claim. To justify the actions and statements that took place on that DVD by saying that 'it has happened before, if you don’t like it, leave,' is contrary to what we stand for in this country which I sacrificed to defend and you say you are doing as well. To put it quite clearly, Luke has the right to say as he wishes unless it infringes on the rights of someone else. We have laws in this country to protect the civil rights of all its citizens that includes religious freedom. In the video Luke made the statement that no “psychic” would be allowed in his show, and if any were present, they would be escorted out. That is a violation of the civil rights. And in making these statements, he made it clear that a segment of the American population would not be allowed equal access, they would be treated differently than other members of society based on their professions and belief systems. That is a violation of Federal and California State laws. And although it is “legal” to say what one wishes about a class of people, it is considered morally reprehensible to mock and insult people based on race, creed, national origin, or disability. And yes, I will stand up and call people on reprehensible actions such as this when I am aware of them and witness them. And I will also stand and question those who defend these despicable actions. We are all entitled to our own opinions, the above is mine. Tony Iacoviello |
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magicandsoul Loyal user 263 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-08-14 19:46, Tony Iacoviello wrote: I recall a case in California where a "psychic" was suing a trucking company because in the aftermath and as an apparent result of an accident the psychic had realized that she had lost her psychic ability. The Judge threw the case out as he commented that if the psychic were truly psychic she would've seen the whole thing coming and stayed home in the first place. While I concur with Tony I must add that it is impossible to discriminate against a population that does not even exist in the first place. M&S |
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