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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Pasteboard Frolics » » Learning Charlier cut using rubberbands (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

chias
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Very new to card manipulation.

I'm currently learning Charlier Cut, and I'm having a bit of trouble with it. Cards seem to be falling off each time I try to push the packet of cards that I dropped in my palm.

Would like to ask if binding the two packets of cards using rubber bands would help? Or would that just give rise to bad form?

Also are there any other suggestions/tips? Thanks in advance!
stoneunhinged
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Chias, I think you just need to tough it out and practice. Using blocks of cards might help later for much more complex cuts, right now you need to train your entire hands to get them used to controlling the cards. So I recommend not using the rubber bands yet. Others might disagree.

The only other tip I have is that virtually all flourishing is easier when you pay very careful attention to the starting position. Make sure your hands, the cards, and each finger are in the right place according to the learning material you are using. If you're not using any learning material, go buy some. It makes a HUGE difference.
chias
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Thanks stonehinged.

What material do you recommend for basic flourishes/card manipulation? I don't want any advanced stuff right now, just want to start with baby steps.
stoneunhinged
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Well, you can't beat this:

http://www.xtremehandz.com/catalog/item/1177533/2120683.htm

It's not cheap, but it's excellent. And the truth is that other stuff might cost you more and give you less. But the Charlier Cut is a perfect example: on this DVD you see EXACTLY how to hold the deck in your fingers, from several angles, and it would have saved me a couple of MONTHS of fooling around on my own to learn the Charlier. (I'm 45 and learned the Charlier 30 years ago.)

If you're serious about getting into basic flourishes, buy it. I bought it for the fanning section alone, and I did NOT waste my money. It's the best fanning advice that I know of on the market.

By the way, my name is Jeff.
chias
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Thanks Jeff.

Unfortunately the dvd is not an option right now. I've been spending a lot of money on magic learning materials recently.


Guess it's back to the Youtube tutorials then...if I get a deep interest in card flourishes then I'll consider your suggestion. Right now, I'm just getting to get my
'feel' on all kinds of magic.
chias
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Jeff would just like you to let you know that I am now able to do the Charlier cut on my left hand, after 1 hour of tinking while watching the TV. Will now move on to my right hand. And maybe after that, my left foot. Smile

chias
trashmanf
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Its okay to tape packets together while learning a move but yeah as stone said don't develop a dependency on it.

use tape instead of rubber bands.
Josh W.
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It helped me to practice with only half of the deck (there are less cards to stumble over and my hand could just handle it better) and, after I mastered that, I started using the entire deck. I haven't tried it, but tape also sounds like a good idea.
"The person who says, 'I can' and the person who says 'I can't' are both right. Who do you want to be?"
clarissa35f
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I remember learning the Charlier Cut, before I knew it even had a name lol... a friend was showing me " fancy one hand cuts" I learned two that day, and as has been said, it really depends on the starting position. The way I do it I push in with the middle finger, and then use the back of that finger underneath the top packet, along with the pointer, and ring fingers holding the top packet..to ease it below the bottom packet.

The other I still don't know what it's called maybe someone knows the name? I hold the deck with thumb at the inner end of the pack, four fingers along the outer... palm below the deck, deck face down. I use the thumb as a pivot. The pointer pulls down half the deck and eases it to the edge so that you can move the middle finger between the two packets. Now with Thumb, pointer, and middle finger you hold one packet, the pinky moves to the edge of the deck so that with the pinky, middlefinger and ring finger you can hold the other packet. Then you just... move the top one under the bottom one.

I find while it is a bit more clumsy than a Charlier, the packs are a bit more secure, and there is less...cards flying all over. Anyone know the name for this BTW?
“Amateurs practice until they get it right.
Professionals practice until they can’t get it wrong.” <Anonymous>
"There is no such thing as magic, there is no other way that could have been done" <Whit Haydn>
trashmanf
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I believe this is called Causabon's "Pincer Grip Cut" but I would have to see a video or a picture to be sure. Definitely one of the more rarely seen one handed cuts.
Lord Freddie
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Get Royal Road To Card Magic - it's quite inexpensive from places such as Amazon and teaches the Charlier cut well. There's also another good description in Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic. It's just a matter of practice.
One I had mastered it with my left hand (I am left-handed) I then went on to learn it with my right hand, which initially was like going back to the beginning with cards falling everywhere! I eventually got it but did have a night of RSI doing so...
chias
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Oh I am right-handed but funnily I felt more comfortable doing it using my left hand.
Aleister Killerby
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Chias, you're not alone on that. You know why you're more comfortable in your left hand, because you are used to holding a mechanics grip with your left hand. You have gotten used to the feel of the deck in your left hand. That's just my theory, I came up with it when I noticed that I am far more comfortable with most one-handed cuts in my left hand, despite the fact that I am right handed.

I have been doing the charlier cut for 8 years, but Jeff is right, you can't go past Xtreme Beginnerz. If I were you I'd buy it the next time you can afford it. You seem to think that you'll only need it if you want to do XCM or flourishing. You are wrong, it's great for those little things that magicians do, such as fanning and ribbon spreading, with great advice, and will be one of your top purchases even if you stick solely to magic. Don't learn from youtube, support the people who go out of the way to teach it to you, don't cheat them. Besides, the majority of tutorials on youtube are junk.

Xtreme Begginerz is fantastic, and to all people out there, whatever your opinion of de'vo, or XCM or his stance on magicians, you will not regret buying this DVD. GET IT TODAY!!!

Also, I highly recommend The Encyclopedia Of Playing Card Flourishes by Jerry Cestkowski. A wealth of information.

Hope that helps.
chias
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Aleister, thanks for the reply! Sorry that I didn't catch this earlier.

Glad to hear that I'm not alone.

Coincidentally, I have purchased both Xtreme Beginnerz and The Encyclopedia Of Playing Card Flourishes by Jerry Cestkowski. Both are excellent DVDs!

I've also bought Brian Tudor's Show Off, but someone I don't really follow him at times. I don't really recommend this, it's certainly not for beginners like me at least.

I have McBride's Art of Card Manipulation as well, but I guess that is more for stage manipulation rather than fanciful one-handed shuffles, etc. Anyway, I enjoyed this series as well.

There is just so much material out there for me to digest, and I would certainly not be getting any new stuff until I get all the above pat down!
trashmanf
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Did you just call the encyclopedia a DVD?

funny because there are actually 3 different companion DVDs which you can also pick up that compliment the BOOK really well with variations and stuff. definitely obtain them if you havent yet.
chias
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Yes, I guess I phrased myself wrongly. I have picked up those extra 3 companion DVDs when I bought the book. His performances are awesome. Smile
webghost
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I'm a bit late on my reply, everyone has give you really good advice. I'm don't know if you're using a new deck that is slippery, but if you are try to break in a bit and try the moves without rubber bands. Since you've purchased XB, The Encyclopedia, and Jeff McBride's series you're in very good hands.
Matt Watts
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Mark Wilsons complete course on magic has the best instructions I have seen for the cut.hope this helped.Don't use the bands though.
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