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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Best set of cups and balls for a beginner? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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whitjm5
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Let me start by saying that I know the topic has been done to death. I'm hoping that I can get some advice specific to me AND that this info will reflect the latest stuff on the market. That's why I didn't just rez an old thread.

I've only been doing magic for a couple of months. Always loved it, but never did it myself. My wife wants to know what I want for Father's Day. I asked for a price range and she didn't give it to me. I'm thinking <$100 is where I want to be. I DON'T like copper or brass or other gold-ish colors. I'm not a hardcore C&B guy, but it's a classic and I'm sure I'll use it (especially if I get into doing kids' parties or whatnot). The Monti Cups Aluminum (http://rnt2.com/product.aspx?productno=16) seem to fit my requirements, but does anyone have other suggestions? I'm open to any and all. Thank you in advance for you input. Smile
Darth Ewok
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Well, not liking copper and brass will cut your choices a bit. you can get a aluminum set prety cheap, but they aren't very heavy. magic makers has a plastic set that look like crome, but most here wont recomend magic makers stuff. I think Jake had some stainless steel cups, but they'll cost you a bit more than $100.

I'm sure Bill will see this and tell ya all you need to know in a little while
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pabloinus
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Bazar de Magia is a good option
cenafreak0709
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Just get the Bazar de magia aluminum cups from penguin. and spend the rest of the money on Michael Ammar's cups and balls dvds.
http://www.penguinmagic.com/specialorderproduct.php?ID=5220
http://www.penguinmagic.com/specialorderproduct.php?ID=4358
http://www.penguinmagic.com/specialorderproduct.php?ID=4352
kentfgunn
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Whitjm,

I'd go to cost plus, or another store you can find metal cups. It really doesn't matter. I spent years looking for the "perfect" cups. I found a set of Johnson Products cups, sitting on my magic shelf, laughing at me, were the perfect cups. I could've been practicing, doing magic. No, stupid me, I was looking for cups.

Just a thought brother.
Bill Palmer
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The Bazar di Magia aluminum cups are very light.

If your only objection to copper or brass is the color of the metal, you would be better off to get a set of chrome or nickel plated copper or brass cups. They don't have to weigh 8 ounces each, but they should weigh at least 3 or 4 ounces.

A set of the blue gun metal Monti cups would be far better than the aluminum ones.
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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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James Alan
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The Monti Cups you posted the link to seem like imitations of the Morrissey Magic cups (which are available on their site for almost 50% less than the list price of the link)
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Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2008-06-09 22:23, whitjm5 wrote:
Let me start by saying that I know the topic has been done to death. I'm hoping that I can get some advice specific to me AND that this info will reflect the latest stuff on the market. That's why I didn't just rez an old thread.

I've only been doing magic for a couple of months. Always loved it, but never did it myself. My wife wants to know what I want for Father's Day. I asked for a price range and she didn't give it to me. I'm thinking <$100 is where I want to be. I DON'T like copper or brass or other gold-ish colors. I'm not a hardcore C&B guy, but it's a classic and I'm sure I'll use it (especially if I get into doing kids' parties or whatnot). The Monti Cups Aluminum (http://rnt2.com/product.aspx?productno=16) seem to fit my requirements, but does anyone have other suggestions? I'm open to any and all. Thank you in advance for you input. Smile


The cup market has not changed much since the last post to the old threads, so you are really wasting a lot of time by not paying attention to the old threads.

Quote:
On 2008-06-10 00:00, Jameson wrote:
The Monti Cups you posted the link to seem like imitations of the Morrissey Magic cups (which are available on their site for almost 50% less than the list price of the link)


I'm not going to accuse Morrissey of knocking off anyone's cups; however, the Monti cups, which were designed by Harry Montieth roughly 1970 are the most imitated cups in the world. Many of the cups from India look like them (I'm referring to the so-called Western style cups.) The Monti cups were out of production for many years until RnT II resurrected the work that the original Rings and Things had done.

Morrissey's old designs did not look at all like the Monti cups. However, due to the way that Morrissey fights the necessary costs of competing with the knockoff producers, the Morrissey cups began to approach the Montis in shape. There are some very important differences, though. The saddle of the Monti cups is deeper than the saddle of the Morrissey cups, which is almost flat. The metal on the Monti cups is a bit heavier. The lip of the Monti cup is actually rolled. The Morrissey cups have a lip that is basically folded.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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rannie
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Whitjm5,

I think it really depnds on what kind of routine you wish to do. There are a lot of routines that does not require that the cups stack perfectly. For these types of routine...you best listen to Kent Gunn. Take a trip to cost co, or even ROSS! You will find some nice looking cups that are very cheap. I believe these cups would fall under the "Found Cups" category right Bill?

Now there are certain moves that will require you to have balanced cups that stack well. For these you need to get a set that was meant for the CB routines.

Just for the sake of completeness.... there is also the combo cups. You may do your research on this on your own I'm afraid.

Beginner cups? I doubt that there is one. A Sherwood or an RnT set would be useless in the wrong hands. An entry level set could do miraculous things in the hands of a seasoned performer. If you feel that you are going to be serious with the CB... I suggest you get a solid set.

Rannie
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."

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sethb
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I second the earlier suggestion that you get the aluminum Bazar cups and Michael Ammar's "Complete Cups & Balls" DVD set. Click HERE and HERE to view.

While the aluminum Bazar cups are fairly light, they are certainly fine for starters and you can do all the basic moves with them. You can always get something heavier and fancier later on. It's more important that you become familiar with the variety of moves and subtleties, and the proper way to perform them. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
Pete Biro
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More important than the cups is the ability to handle small objects well. To do nice false transfers. Onen of the best routines I've seen is Bruce Cervon's with just three standard tea cups.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
whitjm5
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Thanks for all the feedback.

I did notice Pete, that handling the crocheted balls is VASTLY different than say, spongeballs. False transfers and finger palms will take me a while to get looking pretty. Smile
Bill Palmer
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It is not important for the finger palms and false transfers to look pretty.

It IS important for them to look natural. There should be no hint that you are "doing something."
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
andrelimantara
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I used bazaar de magia cups when I was started. Until now actually. You might wanna get different balls set since those came up with the cup, imo, too light.

About the moves, just keep doin it. when I practiced as a CB's starter, I always do the move everywhere even when I don't have balls with me. Just try to do the moves. For me it trained my naturalism. Tips which can help you probably, you do real moves then fake it.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Andre
"Good performance comes from good practice, Great performance comes from the heart - Andre Limantara"
Dave V
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Quote:
On 2008-06-10 22:03, whitjm5 wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback.

I did notice Pete, that handling the crocheted balls is VASTLY different than say, spongeballs. False transfers and finger palms will take me a while to get looking pretty. Smile


I've found that the Gazzo style routines with larger than normal cups works well to hide false transfers. A fairly hefty ball about 1" or so is far easier to finger palm and false transfer than the lighter, smaller crocheted cork balls.
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sethb
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Quote:
On 2008-06-10 23:33, andrelimantara wrote: I used bazaar de magia cups when I was started. Until now actually. You might wanna get different balls set since those came up with the cup, imo, too light.

I agree, but for a slightly different reason. In my experience, the Bazar balls aren't too light, but they are too hard and have a very thin crocheted covering. This makes them more likely to "talk" during certain moves.

I replaced them with a set of Morrissey crocheted balls (from Canada), which have a softer cork interior and a much thicker covering. Problem solved! The Morrissey balls also come in 1" or 3/4" size, for slightly smaller hands. Either size still looks good with the Bazar cups. BTW, if you get the replacement balls, order two sets so you'll have some spares in case a ball or two goes south at some point. Most magic dealers carry them, just specify the Morrissey brand.

BTW, I know you said that you don't want copper or brass cups, but the brass Bazar cups are in my opinion one of the best values around. They are heavy, durable, stack nicely, and have a nice ring when hit with a wand (not too hard!). They will also take a lacrosse ball as a final load.

In any event, as others have said, don't get too hung up on the cups; better cups won't necessarily make you a better C & B worker. I demo and sell the small plastic Royal Magic C & B set, using cotton pompoms and a golf ball or "D" battery as a final load, and get wonderful reactions every time. The magic is in your handling, not in the cups! SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
Pete Biro
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Bill is right... PRetty? Not> It should look like you just pick up a ball and place it in the other hand BECAUSE you did that so you can pick up the wand. You need natural cover/shade.

In the opening sequence in the Vernon routine I just a century old "french drop" but it fits the reasoning and has no suspicion to it as I have to "take" it in my right hand because my left hand has to tip the next ball off the cup.

don't rush... strive for "moves" to be totally logical and have no "tells".
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Bill Palmer
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Think of how many people you have watched whose hand movements were simply beautiful, but they screamed MANIUPLATION. If you watch John Carney do the Ramsay material, you won't realize anything is happening until the magic has occurred. Then it's too late.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
whitjm5
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I'll clarify my term "pretty". I didn't mean flashy or flourishy. I meant look good in the sense of natural. Just semantics I suppose. Smile Thank you again for your insight. I have MUCH to learn in the way of C&B and I plan on practicing more as soon as I choose a decent beginner set.
Darth Ewok
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One more thing (and I think Bill will back me up on this) STAY AWAY FROM THE C&B DVDS BY EDDY RAY! they're just...just awful
my real name is Kevin Harrison

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