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scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
Excuse me in advance for bringing up this topic involving religion, which can get sensitive.
Are there any hypnotists who are also strongly devoted Christians? What kind of issues and challenges do you face? Sometimes you get those 'straight down the line' Christians who are prejudice against things like this, arguing the bibles standpoint on self-control. Being a Christian magician, I sometimes get the awkward looks from others - thinking that I am walking on some dark side. However, the majority love it. I absolutely do understand that whilst under hypnosis, the subject still holds their self control. However, I can also understand that from other points of view, it LOOKS like they don't have self control. Maybe there just needs to be awareness talks.. Would love to hear what people have to say, especially from Christian hypnotists. Scott.
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Jesus was a hypnotist.
I don't buy the self control idea its a way to take away the fear of volunteering. Some people have no control whatsover once they are hypnotised. |
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Katherine Anne New user 91 Posts |
Hi Scott,
This should prove to be a very interesting topic! I am a strong Christian and have gotten many funny looks with what I do....both magic and hypnosis. In the area that I live in, magic and hypnosis are not accepted...my mentor got the first taste of what I meant when we did a series of shows down here with some street magic. People aren't interested and are afraid of it...which makes booking shows exceedingly difficult! Although I can see why Christians might be afriad of hypnosis just looking at it on the outside (because as Scott said, it does look like mind control) once they do research in it, there is nothing against the Christian religion. Some believe that it can allow for a demonic possession...but 1) the person still has control over their mind while under hypnosis, and their sense of morals doesn't weaken...how then is it a bigger risk of a demonic possession? 2) that would be exceedingly unlucky for that to happen. And if they are Christians, doesn't the spirit of God dwell within them? How then is it possible, if they are truly a Christian, for a demonic possession to completely take hold of the entire person? Many of my friends enjoy hypnosis and want to take part in it, however over half of them can't because their parents don't think it is right and don't like it. This is irritating, but one has to keep in mind that it is only because they don't know....they are uninformed and jumped to a false conclusion....they don't have it out for us. lol. That being said, I know several hypnotists who are Christians as well. |
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Nongard1 Special user 664 Posts |
Trance is natural phenomena. To say "hypnosis" is against religion (which uses trance ie. alter call, prayer, ritual, music, etc.) is like saying they are against breathing.
Those who oppose hypnosis on religious grounds usually 1.) Fail to understand hypnosis or 2.) Fail to understand their religion. That being said, I don't even bother to argue with them. After all there are plenty of people who do get it, and its just not worth my effert to argue. I was in Tulsa (pentecostal capital USA) and the lady at the coffee shop started talking and asking questions. I said I was a hypnotist, on my way to Vegas. She said, (with that condescending nonverbal communication often present in one who thinks they can save your soul) "Do you think one can be both hypnotized, and filled with the Holy Spirit?" I didn't even answer than one just paid for my donut and walked off. (And the answer to her question is yes!)
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I simply do not justify what I do or how I do it.
I do it with taste, and my belief is my own.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Richard said:"Do you think one can be both hypnotized, and filled with the Holy Spirit?" I didn't even answer than one just paid for my donut and walked off.
The thing is the above sentence will give you the reason.Some religeous groups (if not all to some extent) Want to control the "flock". Anything that could challenge their mind conditioing rituals and cult like behaviour is evil. They are installing phobias fears and anxieties into their members in order to keep them in line. |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Have to say I'm with mindpunisher here. That's the way it's always been, right back to the oracle, carried through the dark ages where anyone who carried any form of sensititivity were tortured and put to death by the priesthood in the name of Chistianity and right up to today. A guy can't even get a donut in some places! Keep away from those guys. Worship from home and practice your hypnosis in the light with beer and good buddies.
Bobser.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
"trance is a natural phenomena".
So are heroin poppies. Trance can be used for unethical purposes. Religeon has been doing that for centuries. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
People are free to believe what they wish. I'm not trying to convert anyone, or even to argue reality of anything. I am only trying to entertain.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Nongard1 Special user 664 Posts |
MP: Trance, like breathing or eating, occurs spontaneously and without decision of the will. heroin, sex, or whatever may be "all natural" but requires will to exercise. A person CANNOT live life without trance. A person can live life without heroin.
Richard
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
But the distinction natural doesn't make one or the other harmless. Which is the point I am making
Religon, politics are "trance hijackers". You only have to look at cults and figures such as Hitler to realise trance can also be abused. I don't believe people are free to believe what they want if they have been exposed to excessive conditioning. Especially at a vulnerable time in their life. |
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Sandstar Loyal user 232 Posts |
Having studied the work of Milton Erickson, it's clear that hypnosis holds many possibilities. Some of them are frightening. At one point Dr. Erickson embedded memories of himself into a woman going all the way back into her early childhood so that she could have some pleasant memories of growing up in the middle of a troubled family. In this false memory he hid his identity, calling himself the February Man. The therapy was successful. At the conclusion, she remembered having pleasant experiences with an adult friend who came to visit at important moments in her formative years. Dr. Erickson was a genius with great concern for the welfare of his clients. However, the implications of what he was able to do are far reaching. Hypnosis is not a game.
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Anthony Jacquin Inner circle UK 2220 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-28 15:30, Sandstar wrote: Hypnosis is not a game. But we are allowed to play. Anthony
Anthony Jacquin
Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis Updated for 2016 Now on Kindle and Audible! |
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WillBox Regular user 146 Posts |
Interesting topic, I'll just throw in my 2c.
As already mentioned by mindpunisher and bobser, I see religion is a belief system that uses trance, influence, emotion, and suggestion to perpetuate itself. Any belief system is just a set of automatic internal responses anyway. Bill Kroger has a great comprehensive chapter about hypnosis in religion in his Clinical and Experimental Hypnosis book. The hypocrisy of a deeply religious person being against hypnosis in my mind is just an illustration of the 'reject any contradicting evidence' principle of self-fulfilling beliefs. Surely if people were open minded, keen to learn about 'truth' and grateful of the psychological biology they were graced with by the 'powers that be' they would at least look into hypnosis enough to realise it wasn't 'evil' (unless evil is defined by anything threatening their belief system, which for some religions it is). I realise this is all part of my belief system about hypnosis though, so I am probably tangled up in some horrible belief paradox, but I can live with that. |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-29 07:19, WillBox wrote: Don't want to get too far off topic, but most religious people can't even study theology, since their limited beliefs (in their own particular religion) stops them from even contemplating the possibilitiy that another religion might be 'the correct path', which by definition would mean that they are currently on the wrong path, which would mean...... well, that's enough pain for one day eh? bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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MagicalPirate Special user Shamokin, PA 828 Posts |
Now lets get down to business and seperate Christianity from Religion. One is not necessarily linked to the other. I am a Christian, a follower of Christ. I find no objection to hypnosis personally. It would create a paradox if I did since I'm a Stage Hypnotist. I see the use of natural trance in worship but I totally disagree with those that place some mind control of the flock connection with connecting with God. If that were the case the only time I would make connection with God is in my pew at church. Happily that is not the case. I agree not to make comments about those critical of faith as long as they accord me the same grace. Connecting with God does not make you a Cult follower or one interested in controlling others. So as long as we can keep religious dogma out of the discussion we should have no problem. Yes, I agree you can be hypnotised and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Here's one guy definitely out of line with the flock signing off.
Martin
Martin Blakley, CSH, DASH, CMSA
http://www.thehypnoguy.com/HYPNORESOURCES http://www.docgrayson.com/ How To Sell Anything Online http://tub.bz/?r=1z Copyright to my own words retained 100%. |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-29 17:18, MagicalPirate wrote: No disrespect Martin, but believe me, it'll save time: Christianity IS a religion. I wouldn't lie to you. bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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LLL Inner circle 1574 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-23 19:17, Nongard1 wrote: Totally agree, too often people hide behind a religion to make them feel better about themselves or because they have been scared S***less when they were vunrable. I am not even remotely religous, but still know right from wrong.. And I'm not saying everybody who follows religion is being taken advantage of or stupid, just that it is well documented that people who are vunrable are targets for these groups.. To say that hypnotism is evil or wrong when using it as a tool themselves is incredibly stupid. Andy
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
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MagicalPirate Special user Shamokin, PA 828 Posts |
I have to disagree Bobser. Religion is what happened to Christianity. It is not at all what it was supposed to be. Christ fought the religious leaders of his day who were afraid of giving up their power positions and lucrative practices. Today the same type of people have hijacked Christianity. Otherwise, they wouldn't worry about losing control of their flocks.
Martin
Martin Blakley, CSH, DASH, CMSA
http://www.thehypnoguy.com/HYPNORESOURCES http://www.docgrayson.com/ How To Sell Anything Online http://tub.bz/?r=1z Copyright to my own words retained 100%. |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
We're not going to be able to have this philosophical argument in here are we Martin? LOL.
However let me say that I actually do recognise what you're saying and absolutely have no argument with it.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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