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Kif Anderson
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1961 - 2012
386 Posts

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Our non-profit ministry takes care of most of our expenses...and FCM is something our ministry's board has deemed a great investment of our funding. (so no mugging is necessary)

Note: If you do two lectures, your registration is reimbursed. That's not a lot, but it is part the deal. (and there's two of us - Oz AND Wilde...so hey...we're really raking in the savings) Smile

Most of the folks who go to the convention are there to get "new stuff" and they have the opportunity to spend money on stuff that catches their eye. I'd hope it is with the idea of improving their acts.

The convention initiated this year something new. Evaluations. Folks could come and get an honest evaluation of what they are did for us (Oz, Wilde and Joey) in ten minutes. Technique as well as the ministry effectiveness is evaluated. This was then shared in a very supportive and uplifting way. No..."You should really looking into say clowning or juggling or anything...just give up magic." And folks were at very different levels who came to be evaluated. Then many of them did what they could to implement those suggestions (the ones they could anyway...not the "could you repaint that to make it match your outfit") and they got spots to perform on the Late Show (helped Joey Brummet was one of the evaluators and he runs Late Night). And those that did perform really showed great improvement. It was very rewarding to see that.

Here is what they got...Their performance taped, the camera turned on the evaluators and their comments taped, the evaluation sheets, and a DVD of the session...to take home and review. All at no cost to the participant.

Now we say we want to learn to be better performers and that is why we attend. This was a great opportunity for that. However, very few took advantage of the opportunity. It will be done again and hopefully more will sign up. Del Wilson was at one of the sessions and plans on keeping this going.
We are not cisterns made for hoarding, we are channels made for sharing. - Billy Graham
<BR>
<BR>Sharing the gospel with Comedy & Illusion www.ozandwilde.com
Kif Anderson
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FCM forum Staff
1961 - 2012
386 Posts

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Quote:
I attended the FCM Conference this year as a newbie and was blown away. I really didn't know what to expect but found the standard of most lecturers to be very high. Especially the emphasis on us raising our own standards - in particular scripting our shows was very well featured. (Oz and Wilde, Tim Sonefelt, Barry Mitchell) I've since paid and attended a lecture in the UK and was disappointed that it wasn't as good as some of those at the FCM.


That's great to hear you had a such a positive experience. Thank you for sharing that. I'm glad you took advantage of the variety offered. That is a plus of this convention.
We are not cisterns made for hoarding, we are channels made for sharing. - Billy Graham
<BR>
<BR>Sharing the gospel with Comedy & Illusion www.ozandwilde.com
Mark005
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Note to Kif: Oh no you don't, I say you need to be mugged!

Mugged you shall be!!!!!

: P
Gene "Oz" Oswald
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My first year at the International was a great experience. It was not what I expected, but it was such a blessed week for me. We had decided we would go that year and then not go for a while... well, we have now been three years in a row... not long compared to many of you... but I did not expect to do that.

Now with the friends I have made... the time that we use to grow, the things that I learn.. I really want to keep coming every year if that is in God's plan?

It is a big expense, but it is worth every 'buck' we spend. God wants us to help others, He wants us to share our talents as well as the gospel. If you want to teach something... let the leadership know. If you want a chance to perform, there is always "Late Night" with Joey and crew. This year was so much better than the last two years... More people, more variety, more fun... Thanks to all that are part of that...

It does not matter if your full time, part time, retired or working, it takes a lot to make it to the IFCM in Marion. It takes $$$, time, and a sacrifice... but it is all worth it. We all have things we can offer...

Thanks to all who make this event so great!
Rodney Palmer
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And a BIG Thank You to you and Kif for making yourselves readily available at all times. What a JOY and PLEASURE it was to meet you last year. And it truly is a blessing giving out Performance Tapes and helping others to improve their Magic or Gospel Magic.

Rodney
"Creating Memories That Last A Lifetime"



In order to keep "MAGIC ALIVE" Please become a Mentor to a Young Person.
Gene "Oz" Oswald
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U R very welcome Rodney!

When God blesses U, U need 2 pass it on 2 others... U never know when things will change... it is all God's timing and plans... Make use of the situation while U can... He raises up people who will answer the call... He raises up and blesses people who share what He has given !

That is what the FCM is all about..
Joey Evans
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On the idea of lecturers, I believe we should really expand our pool that we look at. I was speaking with Dan Tong last week and he expressed interest in coming to lecture at FCM. I know for many it would be tough to not only come for free, but to pay your room and board. However, I know Dan would bring a table with him and I believe he would do quite well. There are many other performers that I have spoken to that would be thrilled to lecture. I for one would love to see Carl Andrews come and do a lecture, or possibly Tim Ellis. Both of which are christians. Whether or not they are members of FCM, I don't know.
I think the staff has done a good job in recent years of expanding the pool, but I believe we should open it up even more. More lecturers, more and different dealers, simply expand.
This year I was glad to see Justin Flom do a lecture. I think he will be a great pull if we can keep him plugged into the FCM. I heard his lecture was phenomenal. I would've been there if it hadn't been at 8 am. Smile
The Visual Comedy and Magic of Joey Evans

http://www.Evansmagic.com/



The Impossible Has Never Been So Funny!
Gene "Oz" Oswald
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Joey...
if you got up before noon, the pool 4 U WOULD be larger...

But I agree, there are so many out there that could lecture, but coming to the FCM has to be a personal priority. If you start paying people... who gets paid and who does not?

Free room & board would add up...

The QUESTION would be, would people pay more to attend the week long convention so that some presenters could come without cost or a lot lower cost.
I for one think that we need to work on the PRO membership to try to make the FCM convention a priority... they could come every OTHER year if they can't come every year.

As a person who has run conventions, trying to pay for the whole convnetion as well as the other things the organization does and provide a balance for all your presenters is hard.

I believe you must take care of the people that give of their time... but at what cost and where do you draw the line...

I am sure the line would stop just before....
Joey Evans
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Quote:
On 2008-09-15 14:09, Gene "Oz" Oswald wrote:
Joey...
if you got up before noon, the pool 4 U WOULD be larger...

But I agree, there are so many out there that could lecture, but coming to the FCM has to be a personal priority. If you start paying people... who gets paid and who does not?

Free room & board would add up...

The QUESTION would be, would people pay more to attend the week long convention so that some presenters could come without cost or a lot lower cost.
I for one think that we need to work on the PRO membership to try to make the FCM convention a priority... they could come every OTHER year if they can't come every year.

As a person who has run conventions, trying to pay for the whole convnetion as well as the other things the organization does and provide a balance for all your presenters is hard.

I believe you must take care of the people that give of their time... but at what cost and where do you draw the line...

I am sure the line would stop just before....


I agree paying people wouldn't be plausible. However, I think many people would come and lecture for exchange for dealer's space.

I do think for special lecturers something could be done about room and board. Even if you had to raise registration by five dollars, or simply have a master's class add-on.

And where you draw the line is up to the powers that be, I guess. Whether it be one master class per category or something similar, I don't know. I don't think paying room and board for such lecturers is by any means unreasonable. I think at the very least it could be looked into.
The Visual Comedy and Magic of Joey Evans

http://www.Evansmagic.com/



The Impossible Has Never Been So Funny!
Joey Evans
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Fort Myers, FL
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And by the way, I do get up before noon the nights you guys don't keep me up all night!
The Visual Comedy and Magic of Joey Evans

http://www.Evansmagic.com/



The Impossible Has Never Been So Funny!
Gene "Oz" Oswald
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Well, that is only ONE week a year...
oh yeah, and I guess there are the times we talk... work on the PodCast, etc., etc.
the whole three hour difference thing between Florida and California...
Gene "Oz" Oswald
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Joey,

Call KIF!

He is in Tampa...
Gene "Oz" Oswald
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Kerry,

Love your Beans articles... so look forward to them with each new CC! Keep writing! I know it is a lot of work, but we all so enjoy your comments. We all need to challenge each other to strive for our "BEST" no matter what that takes.
Just like the FCM, your comments on that has brought the desire to make the whole organization better and better.
Thanks again for all your hard work!

God bless
David Todd
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Quote:
On Jul 3, 2008, Joey Evans wrote:

If anyone hasn't read the magic beans article by Kerry Kistler in the Christian Conjurer, I ask that you indeed read it. This article was one of the best written articles and most thought out articles I have read in a long time. It addresses many of the concerns that have been in the back of many people's minds for a while. While this article doesn't give a definite solution, I believe it will open everyone up and bring the matter to the front.

One of the best parts of the article was about exposure. I would love to know what the thoughts of people are on the board here. Please read it if you can.





I'm bumping up an old topic because I was doing some research trying to find out if the FCM has any formal policy against exposure. I haven't read the referenced article by Kerry Kistler , because I don't have a subscription to the magazine, but I have some comments/questions.


First of all, I should mention, I'm not a Gospel Magician. (nothing against it in principle , it's just not my calling. Every Christian is called to "always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you", but evangelism using magic to illustrate the message is not something I do.)

I did find part of what I was looking for here in this forum and on the FCM website regarding the FCM policy on exposure, which is part of the FCM Statement of Faith: "carefully uphold the code of ethics of the magic profession (related to exposure of magical effects and ideas).”

That’s a little vague , but I would take it as referencing the IBM and SAM joint statement on ethical conduct. https://www.magician.org/pdf/JointIBMAndSamEthics.pdf , which includes: “Each organization expects its members to adhere to the foregoing ethical principles and to educate non-members to the need to adhere to these ethical precepts.”

What sparked this interest is that I've noticed some ministers on YouTube will post exposures of magic tricks. I'm sure they probably do it with the "best of intentions" , to attempt to show other ministers or evangelists how to use magic as a point of communication with people , but the exposures seem out of place and unnecessary. As I understand it, the main thing in Gospel Magic seems to be communicating the message , so it's the message (the "script" so to speak) that is unique to Gospel Magic. Ministers can provide their object lesson "scripts" free of charge to other ministers if that's what they want to do , because the script is their own intellectual property , but when it comes to the magic effect(s) used in the object lesson, those are not theirs to give away for free by exposing in a public forum like YouTube. Most of the time it seems to me that the effects used in Gospel Magic are standard magic effects used by non-Gospel magicians , too. I understand that many (most?) magicians have just totally thrown in the towel on the exposure issue , but I still think it's important. I will say that I don't think all exposure is necessarily the "end of magic" or anything like that, but all things being equal I'd rather see a higher code of ethics practiced. (and that also pertains to not lifting someone else’s material if permission hasn’t been granted , aside from blatant exposure) . I don’t really want to rehash the arguments over exposure , but I think we could agree that if someone belongs to an organization like IBM, SAM, or FCM where the membership rules are against exposure , then either follow the rules or leave the organization seems to be the honest thing to do. (or work within the organization to change the rules. If exposure is really no problem, then maybe those rules should be changed. )

However, I’m wondering how FCM members would suggest approaching a magic minister who exposes magic , even if that person is not a member of FCM. (following the IBM/SAM precept to "educate non-members to the need to adhere to these ethical precepts." )


Here's an example I saw recently:

[On second thought , I removed this link because I don’t want to single out this one guy specifically. There are others. In this case he exposes the Linking Rings]

I have no idea if this chap is a member of FCM ... I'd guess probably not. My impression of watching a few of his videos is that he's not a magician as such , but sees magic as just a visual aid to keep children's attention while he's giving his object lesson. What would you say to someone like this about his exposing ?

I realize the Linking Rings have been exposed many times and it can be considered a "public domain" type of trick (I don't know that there's ever been anyone definitively credited as the creator of this ancient trick ... that bit of information is lost in the past) . The Linking Rings will probably survive. But what really rubbed me the wrong way is that at one point in his video the guy has the gall to say:

"Never tell how it's done, because once you do , it's not cool anymore. In fact , the only reason they want to know is so they can tell their friends how it's done and ruin it for them , too. Don't ever tell them how it's done."

Amazing he doesn't see the glaring inconsistency of admonishing other people to "never tell how it's done" , but then he turns around and exposes the trick in a public video on YouTube ... in a video that anyone -- including kids from his Sunday School classes -- can access. Does he not understand that kids are very internet savvy and they know how to use a search engine, probably more so than many adults ? So, why not just save the kids the time of Googling for it by telling them how it's done in the class ? Well, of course , he supplied the answer --- "Never tell how it's done, because once you do , it's not cool anymore ... the only reason they want to know is so they can tell their friends how it's done and ruin it for them , too." However, he doesn't follow his own rule.


He exposes the milk pitcher here: [ Link removed , no point in giving him additional views on his channel]

Is magic going to be laid waste and come to an end because this dude exposed old classics like the linking rings or the milk pitcher ? No. But my point is these are not his to expose and more to the point , it's not necessary to expose the workings of the tricks in a public video to get across the message of his object lesson. It would be better if he wants to share an instructional video with other ministers to share it via a private, password-protected video (which is relatively easy to set up on Vimeo or YouTube). Even setting the video to "Unlisted" on YouTube helps prevent people from just stumbling across it at random .


In another video he exposes "Healed and Sealed" , which was created by Anders Mogen : [ Link removed ]

Yes, Healed and Sealed has also been widely exposed before , it's not just him , but I mention this one to show it's not just some old "public domain" tricks like the linking rings or milk pitcher ... but even those good old classics shouldn't be openly exposed on YouTube, imo.

In another video he exposed the "Pom-Pom Pole", originally created by Louis Histed and re-popularized by Ali Bongo, who added his own touches:

[Link removed]

During his video exposing the trick he says: "I'm asking you , please don't tell the kids how this is done , because once they know it won't be cool anymore and they will just want to tell everybody how it's done." (Yeah, ya THINK ? But that doesn't apply to him I guess ...)


I don't mean to pick on this guy especially. He's just one. (that’s why I removed the links to his videos) . There are other examples I could post. What I'm asking is if there is anything you would do specifically as FCM members , as Gospel Magicians, to appeal to people like this to curtail their open exposure of tricks that are part of the working repertoires of other magicians ? To me , merely having good intentions, that it's "all for equipping people to share the Gospel", doesn't make it acceptable.

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