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mormonyoyoman Inner circle I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only 2440 Posts |
Maria, I would be happy to derail this thread into a discussion about diabetes (one of my passions!) but I have to finish this gallon of ice cream.
*jeep! --Grandpa Chet (OK, OK! I *was* just joking!)
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
--Grandpa Chet |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
I've been a member twice. In the Eighties and about 2005. I have MUMs from both periods and I think the quality of the magazine has improved immeasurably in those two periods. This is not something that can be achieved on the cheap.
I don't know if I'm ever going to reach a point where I can justify the money to re-join the SAM (not to mention dues to the local group here in Providence) but if I do, I don't think $65 is all that much.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I've been a member of the SAM for 36 years or so, the IBM for 35 years, and the Magic Circle of London for 22 years. I know the fees have gone up quite a bit.
If you aren't getting your money's worth out of the SAM or any other magical organization that you belong to whose fault is that? I'm on the board of our local assembly, so I knew 2 years ago that dues were going to increase. This has not been a secret. As marty.sasaki pointed out, it has been discussed quite often in MUM. If you are a working pro, you can deduct your membership fee from your Schedule C. Have you taken the time to submit something to the magazine? Do you perform for your assembly? All of these are things to think about when you consider the membership in the organization. If you think that the SAM has done nothing about complaints of exposure by members, maybe you should provide your local assembly with the details of such exposures that you know about. The SAM and the IBM have been working quite hard on this issue. If you are not in the publishing business, there is a strong chance that you are unaware of one of the draconian measures the post office took that has hurt small magazines and book publishers. There is now no overseas postage via surface mail from the US. Before the regulations changed, it was possible to send a shipment of up to 40 or so pounds of printed matter overseas via surface mail in an M-bag. Now the suface M-bags no longer exist. You can ship via an Air M-Bag, but the costs are almost 5 times as great. What caused this? Time-Life-Warner for one thing. They now have electronic print facilities overseas, so they can print for a given market in that home country. One thing I hope the SAM does not do is to go completely on line with MUM. There still quite a few people who don't have computers. Some of them are well-known magicians. If the magazine went on line, then these people would be deprived of their access to the magazine. If the magazine went 90% electronic, the cost per magazine would skyrocket.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Erich Troudt New user 97 Posts |
If mum goes all online, I'll drop my membership. I don't belong to a local ring and haven't for years. Like most men, I read in the bathro.....and there's no computer in there. I spend enough time in front of the computer doing business and emails, reading a magazine is just more time required in my office.
Mum basically can be broken down into sections... ring reports, (which I don't read, honestly, I could care less what ring 789 in Iowa is doing at there meeting), reviews of products, (which I can get free online from tons of different sites), History (again, free from various sites), and ads (which are free everywhere). That leaves a cover story (usually about a member who has been elected to some position, served a offical position for many years, or advertises a great deal every month), 7 to 12 tricks (which most of the time are mentalism or closeup to which I do neither) and 3 or 4 writers columns. To me, that isn't worth paying $65 a year if I'm forced to sitting in front of the computer. If the annual price was dropped a great deal to be online only....perhaps. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging on the magazine. I understand just because I don't like certain parts doesn't mean they aren't important or shouldn't be in there, or that it isn't popular with the masses. I also know you can't please everyone. I enjoyed Sankey's column, Beck can be interesting at times, and Rod Danilewicz has been really good so far. To be blunt I think Schwarzman coulmn is a waste of space, and years of aldo in Linking Ring was enough. Let get some new blood. Neilsons poster and history of the poster is the thing I enjoy the most and I would miss that. once again, my intention are not to bag on mum. I just wanted to give my reasons of why its not worth it to me if it goes exclusively online. While I'm sure most will disagree, I can't believe I'm the only one that would drop my membership. |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
I also do not want to have it go on Line. Nor do I want to see us become part of another publication as it once was with Sphinx. We have a great magazine (hopefully, we can get a new editor the caliber of John) but going on line would be a disservice to many members. Not every one has computer, wants one or could use one.
I get far more use out of the printed magazine then I could ever on line. Use the on line for the up to minute news. The MUM is used as historical record of our group's activities. It can be supplimented with video and such. But it needs to remain as a printed word. I wish I could attend Louisville to bring this point forward. But the economics of that convention are out of mine and many members reach. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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Steven Steele Chief of Staff 1868 Posts |
I won't drop my membership, regardless. To me SAM, IBM, whatever, is more than about the magazine. It's more than about the members. It's more than about the local meetings. It's about the art we all love called Magic. All of these organizations are there to preserve the art, record its history, and share it all with its members.
So don't look at your $65 as 'what do I get for it?'. Think of it as an investment, for future magicians, giving back to the art. And if you want to give back more, get involved! As a side note, I do get a lot more value than my $65 with the magazine. John has done a fantastic job in modernizing the publication.
Coram Deo
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weidhaas Loyal user 271 Posts |
Thanks Steven. I agree.
Richard, I am not aware of any near future plans to put the MUM 100% online. I will be very surprised if the topic is even discussed at the National Council Meeting. You have no worries. I too enjoy my library of MUMs and refer to them often. I prefer the printed version. I have heard some suggestions that the SAM should have older copies of the MUM scanned for reference purposes. I, for one, would be interested in hearing more about this idea. As a previous poster mentioned, "different strokes for different folks." Although we agree that the printed version is best for us, there is a new generation of magicians coming. This generation learns magic not from books, but from youtube. They don't write notes or even phone, they text message and iphone (often while watching movies at your local theater). They communicate with their friends with MySpace. They are our future, and we must be prepared to present our organization to them in a manner that they are accustomed. My mentalist prediction is although the MUM will not go online in the near future, it will in the next 25 years. I hope you are a member when it happens. Yours in M-U-M, Mark Weidhaas SAM 2nd Vice President Posted: Jul 17, 2008 2:53pm I had to run and perform my last library show before the Big Convention, and I had another thought to share. My car has an input that allows me to listen to my ipod. Since I am on the road for an hour or two on the way to magic shows, this affords me the time to listen to podcasts and “read” some books. I have found audible versions of books, downloaded to my ipod, can be a very satisfying way of passing the time on the road. I have “read” countless books by Stephen King, David McCullough, Richard North Patterson, Dean Koontz, David Baldacci, Khaled Hosseini, and Ken Follett. So maybe the SAM should offer, in addition to the printed MUM, several select articles that are in audible format each month. This may be a good idea, or a bad idea; but it is an idea, and there is no harm in exploring it further. The SAM programs try to appeal to the majority of its members, but that is not what is important. What is important is what YOU the member (or potential new member) wants to get out of your membership. This is your organization. What do YOU want to see more of to make your $65 worthwhile? What new programs would interest YOU? Once you have an answer, let the Officers know. Tell your State Deputy or Regional Vice President, and maybe your wishes will become reality. I, and all the National Officers, want to hear what your ideas are. You can talk with any of the National Officers – we are ALL on skype. If you are going to Louisville, I’ll be there and would love to talk with you. I have some additional duties with the convention while there, but you WILL see me and I WILL find time for you. Let’s talk, please. Always you can email me with your ideas: info@inspectormagic.com. Thank YOU for being a member of the SAM! Your friend in magic, Mark Weidhaas SAM 2nd Vice President This post has not been Grammarized |
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Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts |
Interesting idea, Mark! And that's very good news about the M-U-M.
There's a thread on this topic at SAMtalking.com that could use such information from you or other officers. (Since it's the only official place for most S.A.M. members to engage in open and uncensored discussion with other members and officers, you would really be doing the membership a visible service by attending and contributing.) Thanks, Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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mormonyoyoman Inner circle I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only 2440 Posts |
$65 for 12 issues of my favorite magic magazine. $5.41 and 1/3 cent for each copy of my favorite magazine. If I got nothing else from my S.A.M. membership, I think I could live with this.
*jeep! --Grandpa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
--Grandpa Chet |
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weidhaas Loyal user 271 Posts |
IBM/SAM Convention NEWSFLASH:
Well Chet, "Wait, there's more!" If you are not an SAM member, stop by the SAM booth in the Dealer Room, join and you will receive the July 2007 issue of MUM for free. That is 13 issues at $65 for Chet's (and my) favorite magazine. That works out to be $5.00 per issue. This offer is limited, so stop by the booth right away! See you in Louisville! Mark Weidhaas SAM Membership Co-Chair |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
Guys,
Check out this offer and our great magazine. So glad to hear that MUM is not going on line. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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Whitewolfny Loyal user 216 Posts |
I've been a proud member of SAM for 39 years and will continue to be one regardless of the dues price. I love the new format of the MUM magazine. I enjoy reading the assembly reports and much of the rest of the magazine. What do I get for my $65? Well, in addition to the magazine, I get a sense of pleasure knowing that I'm connected to some of the greatest magicians past and present who have ever lived. I attend my local assembly meetings frequently and totaly enjoy the friendship of some fantastic people who share my interest in magic. Because I am a memeber I am a part of a special world that is unique and I love it.
There was an announcement some time last year that dues would be going up and even an offer to pay a copule years in advance at the lower rate to hold off the increase a little longer. The dues increase was no surprise to those who read the magazine they pay for. I'll give up many other things in my life to make sure I have my dues money for SAM. You can count on that.
Braxton Mannar
<BR>Just an old dog trying to learn new tricks |
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Mike Melito Loyal user 263 Posts |
I gotta say it is a little uncomfortable reading this thread, the thread on samtalking and the genii discussion too. I talked to someone recently who just pointed me to these topics. I hope that this is all not a trend of things to come in the upcoming year.
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Douglas Lippert Inner circle E Pluribus Unum 2343 Posts |
What are you uncomfortable with? The economy sucks and we have to justify to some people why $65 is worth it. Does the S.A.M. no good if we keep our heads in the sand.
Douglas Lippert
Former I.B.M. Ring #8 Secretary |
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Mike Melito Loyal user 263 Posts |
It's not the dues but how some things are being handled by committees that don't exist and decisions that should be voted on but aren't.
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cartoon cowboy Regular user Lancaster, PA 104 Posts |
I understand the difficulty for some in justifying an increase when there are local dues to pay as well. However I like to look at it as a single fee, and I certainly get my money out of it - even when I need to stretch a bit to cover it. It took me 15 years after starting to perform magic before I joined a club, and I chose the S.A.M. I find the S.A.M. overall to be an amazing resource, and a chance to improve, mentor, and keep in touch with the world of magic. Without the club, I didn't even have contact to my peers in my own area except those who I met at the local magic stores. (back when there was such a thing...another post perhaps...)
If nothing else, being a member of S.A.M. allows me to claim so and use it in my advertising. But there's so much more. As for M-U-M, which I refuse to stop pronouncing as the single word 'mum', I can not believe the great quality of the magazine and how it has grown in the 7 or 8 years that I have been recieving it: - It is the only magazing that I read cover-to-cover. Even the articles that don't seem to interest me capture my imagination when I read them. - Yes, the cover articles seem to be mostly of magicians who are known to the higher circle of S.A.M. officers, but shouldn't they be of interest and respect to us? Have any of us made the offer to the magazing to research and write an article on one of our locals? - I actually do read the Assembly reports. I like to see what is going on in the other Assemblies in my general area, and plan to visit one in the near future, just to reach out and see what else is going on. I also like to keep up with my old Assembly #59 in Portland, OR. - The columns are a great variety in scope and cover all interests: close-up, prop, coin, card, mentalism, card, stage, and card (gotta have those cards); and they speak to all magi from collectors to paid amatures to jet-setting pros. I like being addressed at my own level, but also I thrill to read about the sucesses that I aspire to achieve! - I have learned about local magicians who I didn't previously know. Jay Sterling (prior columnist and had a wonderful cover article), took the time when contacted to meet me in his town for a chat and offered my wonderful advice. I would have never met him otherwise or known that we had the similarity of being magicians from Mennonite families. Tim Mower who goes by "Levram the Great" has a Colonial Conjuring act in Philadelphia. I saw his article in the August M-U-M and went to see his show. If you're in the area and want an example of top-notch family entertainment, stop by the Betsy Ross house this summer and catch his show. Add on the dealer access and discounts, the conventions, the comraderie (? wish there was a spell-check here), the tape libraries... it all adds up to a very worthwile $65 + local dues to me. Sure, there are things that I would like to see changed or added. When I feel strongly enough about something, I'll start going to the appropriate officers with my suggestions. But I guess that's my take: there's so much good here that I like to view changes not as fixing what's wrong, but making what's good, better. Just my take - sorry for the length.
Happy Trails,
- CC Erick Hershey magic.hersheyarts.com |
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Merlina Veteran user Maria Ibanez 367 Posts |
Greetings,
seems this topic is being re-touched again. Erick, thank you for your support of the S.A.M. and don't be surprised that so many people say MUM instead of M.U.M., it's a matter of habit and then there's always the old cliche of "MUM's the word". Backtracking on a few of these posts, Richard, have you read the President's column of the August M.U.M.? The 3rd item on paragraph five is "M-U-M online?" This preceded by paragraph two which refers to horse drawn carriages, oil lamps and coal stoves leaves me thinking that perhaps we are being prepared for a change in our M.U.M. This would indeed be a sad day for me, not just because it would take me "out of my comfort zone" but because I don't always want to "run to progress" without looking to both sides of the road and listening to those who share that road. Mike, I think your post refers to the closing of SAMtalking and the posts with regards to that.....if that is the case, I can certainly understand your concern. It has been just shy of a month since the closing and still no response from the "executive committee" and SAMtalking continues closed.....the National Officers are posting on the Café, as a matter of fact the National Secretary just yesterday responded to a post made by one of our local members back in July 15th, but no response with regards to the questions raised here or elsewhere with regards to this topic. The First Vice President posted about items found at the convention and the President Elect has also had posts since the convention, yet no response to this question. Braxton, I too will continue to be an SAM member - I am a life member and so the dues won't go up for me but I do worry about retention when the dues go up if the benefits are perceived as having been diminished such as the magazine going online and SAMtalking being removed. Retention of membership is VERY IMPORTANT to all organizations, especially in this day and age of financial troubles in the country and of so many choices of societies and groups to belong to. I wonder, if the magazine goes online, whether the increase in dues will be removed since the cost of printing and mailing the magazine won't be there or if the magazine is reduced in size and a percentage of it is downloadable, then the mailing and printing costs would be diminished by that much therefore will the dues be lowered? I don't know the answers, only "time will tell". Keep a dream in the making for you create your tomorrows by what you dream today. Maria Ibanez |
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cartoon cowboy Regular user Lancaster, PA 104 Posts |
Thanks Maria,
I would hate to see MUM go online only. Having to stare at a computer screen all day in my "real job", I enjoy having a break from the compu-glow. The magazine passes the time quite well on the train, and I'd hate to give it up. It also is a great tangible resource. I have a stack of 7 years of MUMs, and Geniis going back to the early 80's when I started in magic. And I have had covers signed by the likes of Jonathan Pendragon. I can't get magicians to sign my computer screen. (note to self: signed computer screen over jpeg of selected card = transfer of signature to real card...someone make that one work) Lastly, I have found that the MUM magazine is of such high quality that small coffee spills wipe right off of the back cover ads. Just trust me on that one. Keeping mum, Erick Hershey
Happy Trails,
- CC Erick Hershey magic.hersheyarts.com |
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michaelmagicart Loyal user 254 Posts |
I guess the increase is all in the way you look at it. I see that if I threw five cents a day in a jar, at the end of the year I would have $18.25. Subtract my $15.00 additional for dues, and I will have $3.25 left toward the next year.
As for the ladies, I don't know about their "extra" change, but as for most of us gentlemen I imagine our daily change from our pockets ends up in the couch or a jar at the end of the day. Just 2 days ago my wife and I decided to roll my change, accumulated over the past 6 months. We rolled over $110.00. My point being this; Less than a nickel a day is what is being discussed. Is the discussion worth it? |
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3086 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-09-12 23:56, Michaelmagicart wrote: "Less than a nickle a day" I wish I had a nickle every time I heard that form almost every commercial selling something. Trouble is EVERYTHING is going UP and that $110.00 in change doesn't go very far when you divide it up with all those hands "palm up" wanting a piece of the action. I just want to make sure that who I give my money to is being respectful and responsible with my $$.
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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