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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
I think really what the problem is "lag time".
It happens in every business. When a business becomes popular or highly profitable you get the "laggers" jump on board. Also when a business or subject such as mentalism becomes popular you get those already established cashing in by selling their material. Lets not forget the dvds etc were put out there because there was money to be made.Its almost a "sell out" by those who do it. Its all market driven. Once the lag time catches up the bottom of the market falls out. And the art/business/market loses its value. Its enevitable. The trick is being in at the right time and getting out at the right time. |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
In the 70s most local magic acts consisted of the linking rings, the square circle, the Zombie ball, and the newspaper tear. They were the big 4.
Today, in mentalism, we have the book test, the drawing duplication, card calling, and the ever popular bending spoon/fork/coin. When I was young, "any" bar I went to that had a local band, I could count on hearing Free Bird and Stairway to Heaven. They all sounded the same and were interchangeable. Any magic performance I went to would have the above mentioned effects. Today, any mentalism performance I see has the pieces I mentioned as well. Draw from this what you will. |
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Floyd Collins Inner circle Ohio 1633 Posts |
Well said Tony, I could not agree more. I don’t think the original bands had any less fans seeing their live show because cover bands were at ever local bar. Good point!
No one said it would be easy, or did they?
Check out my all new book "Chicken Scratches" visit my lulu store for more information. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/thecenterstage http://www.collinscomedymagic.com |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Is now the right time to tell you guys that my new stage name is Criss Osterlind Brown?
I will be using a mixture of magic, suggestion, no camera tricks but plenty of eyeliner... and the warm up guy is lenny carlin-pryor...
I've asked to be banned
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
OK, I'll just call you COB (I know it is a bit corny, but it fits. )
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
If the cob fits, butter it..no, hang on, if it doesn't fit..butter it...
that's the problem with trying to invent/come up with new ideas, its so expensive to research some things to find out who did what and when first... I know that's not exactly what's been talked about - but its along those lines; sometimes you inadvertantly re-invent something, only to find out some swine has done it...sometimes a couple of hundred years ago... as for just doing someone else's act, I'm just waiting to see someone perform with derren's little head tic...
I've asked to be banned
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Silvertongue Inner circle One day I will die leaving behind 2426 Posts |
Its being done I can assure you of that...
For as long as space exists,
And living beings remain in cyclic existence, For that long, may I too remain, to dispel the sufferings of the world. -Shantideva Engaging in the Conduct of a Bodhisattva |
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Paul Brook Special user UK 855 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-12 10:41, entity wrote: Ah, Entity, my own personal nay sayer! Honestly, I'm flattered Not that I am required to give you any explanation or reasoning for my actions, however, I feel that it may serve as a nice side order to go with your humble pie A classic case of taking something OUT OF CONTEXT, if you can see at the bottom of the page I have the words "KNOWS SEES TELLS ALL" which clearly pertains to the famous mentalist Alexander. (see http://www.loc.gov/shop/images/catalog/i......1608.jpg also see HIS TURBAN!) Having asked a number of people recently to describe what I do, they all said "Mind Reader", I then asked them to create an image in their mind of what they think is associated with the term 'mind reader'. Nearly all of them described a man wearing a turban or a fortune teller. The links with turbans and mind reading is as strong as mentalism is to black turtle neck jumpers (see jet black fabric with small silver pentacle contrastingly adorning it!) Now, I don't wear a turban in my act at all, but for marketing purposes, and to impress the idea of a 'mind reader' on to the laity, I have adopted a turban wearing look, á la, Alexander. Derren's poster is a poster for his "Evening of Wonders" stage act, mine is just general advertising. This thread is about stealing an act from someone, of which I am not doing. So please, if you are going to use my name in a negative way, at least make it worthwhile and interesting oh, and Entity, thanks for the publicity In jolly good humour, -Paul P.S. Not to be picky, but isn't another aspect of this thread that the person gives nothing back to the community? I personally think that I have contributed quite fairly with 5 books (6th on the way) covering nearly 1000 pages of mentalism; or is it just me?
PAUL BROOK
He Knows Shop - All of my mentalism books, PDFs and props Certified Mentalism A beautifully illustrated hardback book full of real world mentalism FREE MENTALISM Free hard-hitting effects, routines and methods, just a click away MAGIC TV INTERVIEW An deep dive interview with Craig Petty, nothing held back! |
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Jon_Thompson Inner circle Darkest Cheshire 2404 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-12 11:29, mindpunisher wrote: Derren was born in Croydon. I have a sneaking suspicion from his accent and address that Paul is from Birmingham, where Freud is how people cook eggs... |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Right there is a link with Birmingham and Derren? Prob university he went to..Og course I may be wrong...
Ok paul gets 8 out of 10 for original birthplace.. However I must say I find Paul's reply to entity a bit unconvincing. I find it hard to believe that he has arrived at such remarkable example of mimicry purely by chance. Not that I am saying theres anything wrong with that. But I would say he is as close to derren as deddy is to max. Also correct me if I am wrong didn't paul market those books? Giving is giving selling is selling. Something quite different in my opinion. Again I'm not saying anything is wrong with either.. |
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Floyd Collins Inner circle Ohio 1633 Posts |
Quote:
P.S. Not to be picky, but isn't another aspect of this thread that the person gives nothing back to the community? NOPE! We want 10 more books from you by tomrrow or your out of the club and you will have to find a new treehouse.
No one said it would be easy, or did they?
Check out my all new book "Chicken Scratches" visit my lulu store for more information. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/thecenterstage http://www.collinscomedymagic.com |
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salsa_dancer Inner circle 1935 Posts |
Luckily I have an original act. Unluckily I am busy with other money making schemes that I can only remember fondly what it was like to perform.
I give to this community through my sparkling personality and fabulous humour. I am selfless like that. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Mindpunisher - I think you're missing the point, when you consider that paul is a genuine hypnotist/therapist and is trained/studied in many psychological techniques, as well as having his own practice for many years...it's a chicken/egg syndrome...
did derren invent pre-show? no did derren invent the wearing of a turban? no was derren the first to sport a fetching goatee? no influences are like bum-holes, we all have them, we should just not talk through them... if I sound prickly, its because I am...paul works extremely hard on all his stuff, and I would suggest maybe only comment after seeing him peform live, or having read his book(s)...
I've asked to be banned
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
I said that I found it odd, nothing more. While you obviously have the legal right to copy Alexander, to follow so shortly after one noted performer has used a very specific image in his publicity, with an image that is almost identical in structure just seems odd to me. Especially in the same area, doing the same sort of work.
Odd. As for "The Man Who Knows" part, I just clicked and copied the image present on your website. Apparently "The Man Who Knows" wasn't part of the image I clicked on. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I've asked to be banned
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-13 11:04, IAIN wrote: In his show: Derren Brown -- Mind Reader, Derren uses no pre-show, so far as I can tell. This isn't the issue at hand. Derren doesn't actually wear a turban, he just features the image prominently in the promotion (posters, billboards, magazine ads, etc.) for his current stage show. This is also not the issue at hand. The goatee... not an issue. That Paul works hard on all his stuff is not an issue. I have read his recent book, The Alchemical Tools. The issue is choosing a graphic image that is so close in makeup to the leading performer in his chosen field of performance, in the same geographical area, and so soon after it being used prominently by the much more famous performer. It almost seems to deliberately invite the question of whether he is trying to "piggy-back" on Derren Brown's success. If he isn't, then it seems an odd choice to me. The public who see Derren's publicity image and Paul's won't know Alexander or remember his turban posters specifically. The image of the turbaned man as mindreader has become an iconic one, and Derren's use of the image is fitting with his performance in his current show, which presents that image as nostalgia. Derren "re-creates" a performance of long-ago mind-readers during the second half of his show. Perhaps I'm the only one who sees Paul's choice as odd. Certainly wouldn't be the first time that I was alone in my thinking. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
It's been used alot, many times, its a classic image I suppose...
the comments you quoted from me, where just general comments about what derren is and isn't responsible for (and he and his team are responsible for a million and one good things. I was just saying that those ideas are not original to him, (i know he doesn't say they are either) - they are there for all to use, alter or indeed wear in the bath..
I've asked to be banned
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-13 09:04, Paul Brook wrote: ..or borrowing without return... - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Then again, if we take your site (no I don't have one before you ask - you have a great c.v. by the way...) -
"I've had to learn an entirely new set of very esoteric and arcane skills to do the things that I do in ThoughtControl", Baxter says. "Psychology, reverse psychology, verbal and non-verbal manipulation, even things as diverse as NLP " "In 2003 THOMAS BAXTER embarked upon his most ambitious project to date: An entire 90 minute theatrical program in which he leaves behind the Magician's painted boxes and sleight of Hand to explore the Psychological Principles that are the REAL stuff of Magic. The Result: T. BAXTER -- ThoughtControl!" mr. baxter's thought control - 2003 derren's mind control - 2000 just to illustrate that some things can be seen as pretty similar at first glance, only when it is looked at within the right context that the differences are seen... this is not meant in a "flaming" way, or in an argumentative (in the negative sense) - just as something to illustrate my point...
I've asked to be banned
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