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artwo
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Hi,

I'm sure a lot of the guys here who are mechanics would be able to share some insight onto this shift.

Would it work in a game environment? In slow company you could get away with any shift I guess, but in fast company would this supposedly invisible shift fly-by?

Flashing the bottom card is one obstacle - though reportedly Ping Pong would argue "no one uses the bottom card so what does it matter", but that's not really the point.



At any rate, its an interesting shift I guess...

Thoughts?
Mr. Z
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In fast company you don need no sheeyft.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
tommy
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OK but what is a Ping Pong shift?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Mr. Z
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Apparently it's a move found in this new Revelation book.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
artwo
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Its a strange one to say the least. Involves turning the deck on its end face towards the table and tapping to "square" the deck.

Something painfully obvious I just realised about flashing the bottom card - bottom dealing thereafter is pretty much a stupid idea... unless you can greek deal but lets not get silly.

@Mr Z - Okay, not super fast mega vegas company, lets talk a few guys who play a lot of poker and aren't the standard crop of sucker.
h2o
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Quote:
On 2008-07-16 19:22, artwo wrote:
not super fast mega vegas company, lets talk a few guys who play a lot of poker and aren't the standard crop of sucker.


I think that it doesn't take just a megas vegas company to be able to spot a "shift". I think any half-wise standard player could easily suspect you're doing something wrong, whatever the shift you're using. You maybe won't be busted the first time, but if you keep "shifting" all night long, then good luck.
artwo
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Well the shift in question was created for a reason and allegedly used to great effect. Maybe it hypes it a little too much in Revelation but supposedly it was invisible, often covered with a punchline from a joke.

He couldn't have told a joke EVERY time he dealt, so of course he didn't cheat every deal - something I'm sure all mechanics also refrain from doing.
rawdawg
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The Shift reminds me of Zingone's Perfect Table pass and Erdnase's Open Shift, moves that I feel work best in the periphery. Besides, those were different times, different games and different attitudes.

Great name for a shift, though.
One time, when I was young, I botched a sleight so bad, Vernon, Marlo & Miller rolled over in their graves. But I didn't see Elmsley, probably because he was behind the others.
tommy
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"Moves that I feel work best in the periphery." Smile

I have some moves that work great when they are not looking.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Stepanov
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Quote:
On 2008-07-16 18:22, tommy wrote:
OK but what is a Ping Pong shift?

If I understand well first time Ping Pong appear on book of David Ben "Dai Vernon: A Biography" and on Revelations we get explanation of thing what "everybody wait".

I do not know how it calls on English, but here we call it "hook" - special new infromation what appear for made book interesting. Some time this is invented thing but sometime old but forgotten.

Apologize if my information not correct.
Stepanov Oleg Anatolievich
Hansen
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I hear it's big in Bangkok.
artwo
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I can't see how it can ever be invisible from the right side. Meaning you would need an accomplice on your right. Rendering the whole notion of a shift pointless.

But supposedly it was completely invisible. Perhaps the method described isn't as Ping Pong accomplished it.


Or more likely, I've only been doing it for a few weeks and am nowhere near a decent execution.
tommy
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Not all money games are poker and it might be ok for Gin or maybe Bridge.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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artwo
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But its not invisible from the right, its still a problem.

Its strange, usually with a move you can ask someone who is really good at it. But who is good at it? Nobody we're aware of.
Rupert Roach
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Quote:
On 2008-07-16 20:00, artwo wrote:
... He couldn't have told a joke EVERY time he dealt ...


Honestly now, do you really think a true artist would use the exact same ruse on every single time? Ho hum.
James Alan
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After reading Cervon's description of the move, I worked on it for a few weeks. I showed it to a friend, he said it looked fantastic, practically invisible, he couldn't see what I was doing. The drawback was that even though he saw nothing, he could see the action screamed TABLE SHIFT. It was also a move completely unsuited to my mannerisms.
James Alan

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gdw
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For the longest time (not that the book has even been out that long) I was reading it as the move being done to the left, given the "exposed" photos. This of course made absolutely no sense, and left the move completely exposed.

Oddly enough, several who I discussed it with also attempted doing the move as such during the discussions.

Re-reading it, I realized that the move was clearly meant to be done almost immediately after the deck is picked up, executing it to the right of center. In fat that is exactly how it is described, 'right of center' and somehow I missed this initially. Go figure.

Any who. As mentioned here, the move is still clearly exposed from the right. Perhaps "owl turns head" is what covers this? I figured doing it, the deck and hands moving left, and the head turning right, to the person who cut the deck, making eye contact with them as the move is done, would allow you to avoid them seeing it.

I worked an idea based on Mexican Joe's shift, ding it just as the deck comes over the edge of the table and into the right hand. Allowed for a bit more cover from the right.

Mentioning the Cervon notes, did anyone else originally picture this being done with the deck turned the other way? Long ends to the table? It would be done to the left though, after having turned more, tapping the deck on its side at the end of the turn.
It allows for the right hand to cover far more of the move, and the left hand covers enough of the bottom that no one would be suspect to the bottom "flashing."

Could be way off base here. I know you mentioned seeing it similarly from the Cervon notes James.
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Clock
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The angles are invisible from 7:00 - 1:00 ... The rest is the psychology behind it.

For what its worth, I have fooled a lot of the guys with it. I have also seen the ping pong shift done as a completely open shift (bad from every angle) and fly by everyone in a "fast" game.

Again... it's all about the timing and psychology of the move.
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Kimura
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Would you perhaps categorise this as a "speed shift" similar (although at the same time completely different) to the one in 52?
artwo
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It looks more awkward than that, Kim.

Or maybe it doesn't fit my hands.



I used to think this shift was the dogs ********, but then I realised that... well... it really isn't.

Shifts tire me out.

EDIT: I can't say ******** ?!
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