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Michael Kamen Inner circle Oakland, CA 1315 Posts |
I do not think you are oversimplifying, Burt. Nor have I any problem at all with the thoughts you have shared. For me also, connection is enhanced by exploring beyond a standard model of what it is we think we do and how it is we think they respond.
Michael Kamen
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
Brad,
I believe that Doug Henning believed what he did. It was part of what made him the great man he was. |
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Michael Kamen Inner circle Oakland, CA 1315 Posts |
We all love Doug Henning, Drew. This is not a battle, and integrity is a great quality in anyone -- even yourself. Please do not be ground down by wind mills, oh Don Quixote. Sheesh.
Michael Kamen
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
It's true, I am the man of La Mancha.
I've been under fire about this stuff for a very long time now. I don't know how important this battle actually is, but it isn't just in my head. |
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kosmoshiva Loyal user Canada 255 Posts |
Brad, I think we ARE healing the sick and feeding the poor - just a different kind of sick and poor than you're thinking of.
Don't forget to breathe.
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Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
Kosmoshiva - good point.
If your audience takes nothing away from your performance...... ....you have failed them. (One of the challenges with XCM. Nice eye candy, but if there is no story.....there is no emotion or transference of emotion.) The mark (or test) of Art is making one think and feel. Some of us aspire to do magic. We create a space where our audiences are transported. Obviously, magic isn't the motions or effects, it's what we project and share and engage our audiences with emotions and thoughts. When you see Lance Burton work, does it stay with you for more that a few moments? Even though he's not my style, didn't Doug Henning leave an impression on a generation that stays with them to this day? Do the faces that Whit Haydn makes smile take some of that into their everyday life, if only when they share the story of being on stage with him when they couldn't get those **** rings part like Whit did? Did Houdini get an entire world to show up to see if he'd kill himself, or if he'd manage to escape one more time? It saddens me to read the opinion that someone feels their work is "But, only of a fairly transitory type." We owe ourselves and our audiences more and better than that. And if you want to read what magic really is: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseac......30750743 And that is real magic... ...and what it's really about.
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
Dear Vick:
No, it's not. It's superb and on the ball showmanship, and I applaud it. But if it's 'magic' in the sense that this forum talks about, then 'anything' we want to designate as 'Real Magic' is made so by the assertion thereof. The problem is that it's not helpful to mix categories. What you have above is a wonderful story of the affect of a magic presentation on both the child helping and the audience watching. We might say that it had "a magical affect" upon them, but that affect is not the magic. Anymore than listening to a song is the 'singing' of it. It's helpful and necessary that we know what the affect of your presentations will be. This one is strong. That one is weak. In both cases, we would like to know why?? But, the 'magic' that we do is the effect that our manipulations (in the broadest sense of that term) produce. That effect viewed by the audience will then hopefully produce a strong and dramatic affect of some kind that will be remembered and cherished. As far as the transitory nature of our craft...the context was simple: A painting, a sculpture, etc., can, and in some cases seem to be, forever. The craftsman produces his piece, and there it sits to be looked upon again and again. But, magic isn't like that. Even granting that someone might make video...it's just not the same and never will be. Performance art is forever 'happening' again and again and again. I agree that it's very cool when what we do so affects folks that they will regale us with accounts of shows of ours that they have seen, but for the most part that doesn't happen. And, so often, the best magic we do happens one on one and in passing. Transitory. All best,
Brad Burt
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Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
Brad, we are 180 degrees apart on this subject. Believe we could both speak until blue in the face ..........
Case in point about art, thinking, feeling and not being of a transitory nature Simple example Working on a new piece (for me), Sidewalk Shuffle Redone. Presentation is a con man giving an example of why not to gamble (the lottery is a tax on those who are bad at math), the story goes into the history of marks (if you're sitting at a gaming table and you don't know who the mark is, ..... it's you) and how to draw a player in and so on and so forth. If my presentation is strong enough, if I can engage the audience....., it won't stop a serious gambler from gambling, but it can cross their mind when they sit down to play cards. Therefor it is not of a transitory nature. If you see Munch's "The Scream" or Rodin's "The Thinker" only once in your life for a few minutes, would that be of a transitory nature? Or do they stay with you? Maskelyne in "Our Magic" writes about low art, normal art and high art. Can you really aim to produce high art (I've been ok with producing normal art for some time)and think or accept because it exists only while the piece is being performed it won't have a lasting effect on your audience? If we aspire to do the best work, we want our audience to think and feel as part of experiencing the entertainment we provide. What should we aim for in our work? A piece of ECM fluff that is nice eye candy or a piece that an audience can take something from with them? I 100% agree with your statement "The mind of the performer should by habit be BELIEVING .... IN .... the illusion offered. This conviction on the part of the performer alters his body language and adds another layer to the deception." You write "One thing that happened to me after years of performing magic on an almost daily basis was that I lost all connection to the magic itself! I performed the movements with precision and perfection, fooling the multitudes, but I lost....lost the effect for me. " I sort of see that in the differences between the essays you wrote here in the Café last year and what you are writing now p.s. and I believe my story is magic. By definition http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/magic Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) 5. power or influence exerted through this art: a wizard of great magic. 6. any extraordinary or mystical influence, charm, power, etc.: the magic in a great name; the magic of music; the magic of spring. 9. mysteriously enchanting; magical: magic beauty. American Heritage Dictionary 4. A mysterious quality of enchantment: "For me the names of those men breathed the magic of the past" (Max Beerbohm). Be well, Vick
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
I 100% agree with your statement "The mind of the performer should by habit be believing .... in .... the illusion offered. This conviction on the part of the performer alters his body language and adds another layer to the deception." I respect that you agree with the advice as given. I find that language scary and so... instead - here's a different slant on similar advice: During a performance, the character as presented to the audience is well advised to be be mindful of the magic they use - how they summon the magic, how they apply the magic to achieve their ends and how well their efforts are achieving their intended magical results. The performer, being a competent actor, may find his sense memory, imagination and studied body language as useful in communicating his performance to his audience as his studied script and lines. Magic - will in action - you've just seen the "Ill formed language transformed into working advice for performing magicians" effect performed via text. For my next feat I will make a cup of decaff appear - and enjoy it.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-08-02 23:46, Vick wrote:... Vick, there are better dictionaries to work from. IMHO the first definition on any list should be "the impression of will affecting the world in a manner which is otherwise inexplicable by understood natural law" What edition of the newspeak dictionary are you working from?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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jstone Inner circle Someday I'll have 1473 Posts |
I've always been inspired by something that Jay Sankey Lectures about:
Magic happens in three places: 1. Your hands 2. The Spectator's mind 3. Your mind |
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Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
Good stuff Jonathan
Used dictionary.com for brevity Your definition and explanation are much better
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
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