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roi_tau Veteran user Israel 335 Posts |
Hi Guys,
I had this great routine where I "risk" my money (Bank Night style) and never lose. I can, however, make this trick much better, but it will only "work" 7/8 times. The problem I'm having now is how to deal if I lose. One option is to risk someone else's money (another spectator) and give him the money. I can double the bill (with TT) and return the bill to his owner and give the new bill to the winner. Another option will be to force the winner to double/nothing bet and win. My show is mostly mentalism, and this effect is about influencing people. Can I just give him/her the bill and say that I couldn't influence him? Have fun, ROi |
JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
I avoid effects that do not succeed 99/100 times or better. I know it's harsh, but making routines is harsh. Cut till it hurts, then cut some more. You aren't after "pretty good", you are after "perfect".
As a side note, I have a friend who is an exceptional magician. One night I saw him perform, and he had "one of those nights." Every other effect went wrong. It was one of the best performances I have ever seen. The audience was in stitches. It is pretty important to script for the failure of every effect you do. No one is perfect, and you never know. As for your particular question, it's hard to give you ideas with so few details. Your character, the nature of the bet, the lead in, your style, your attire, and more are all important factors in scripting a failure scenario. Hope that helps. Sorry I couldn't address your question directly. |
The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Roi,
In any formal performing situation where the magician loses a straight bet, you've got an awkward problem. Either they win the money and they feel awkward, or else they don't get the money and they feel cheated. The less formal it is, the more leeway you've got. But if it's formal? I'm pretty ignorant about this... The only person I know who had losses built into a betting routine was Chef Anton in his Fast and Loose routine. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6238576866788055037 Even in his case, though, the losses happen mid-routine, allowing him to still triumph at the end.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
Well, the Fast and Loose routine is under complete control of the operator, and there are no "chances" being taken in Chef's routine. He controls the wins and the losses.
If you make a bet, the worst thing is to be a welcher. I have known people like Bill Goldman to have lost such a bet in a trade show (for a hundred dollar bill). He not only paid the hundred (out of his own, not the company's money), but he congratulated the winner and acted stoked for him. He made the winner feel good about winning and built up the fact that it was so very rare an event. Never offer a bet you can't afford to lose. Never welch on a bet with the audience. Always try to make the audience feel good about the contest, no matter which side wins. I would never do a trick that goes wrong almost 12 percent of the times it is performed. |
roi_tau Veteran user Israel 335 Posts |
Thank you, all.
About taking risks in shows, I watched Paul Potassy's videos and he said that he can't let himself fail (99.9%). But you all know Kreskin's routine where they hide the paycheck, and in every interview he says that once he lost the paycheck (didn't find it). There are many things, especially in mental acts that involve risks: Psychological forces and cold/muscle reading are not 100% sure. And another thing - the number 7/8 came just from the statistics against machine, not people. It's more if I can control the spectators. I loved what Whit Haydn said about giving the spectator the money and making a big deal out of it. What do you say? |
The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Risks are fine. Failures are also fine depending upon the type of character you want to portray. Chan Canasta made a great point about how failing in the context of mentalism can actually (paradoxically) help improve your credibility.
But if it's an apparently legitimate bet, you shouldn't lose. And if you do lose, you shouldn't weasel your way out of it.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Michael J. Douglas Inner circle WV, USA 1645 Posts |
It's hard to say exactly how I'd handle something without knowing more details, but I might set it up by explaining that I sometimes like to try something, just of fun, to push or test my abilities. "It doesn't always work. In fact, I've lost $--- so far... But it keeps me on my toes, and putting my money on the line gives me a good reason to do my best!"
If you lose the money, congratulate the winner on their besting you. I think it should be kept fun and light-hearted. If you act "defeated", the audience may start to feel sorry for you, which would bring the show down.
Michael J.
�Believe then, if you please, that I can do strange things.� --from Shakespeare�s �As You Like It� |
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Give them the money, without a doubt!
If you have decided to risk ACTUAL cash, then you are honour bound to give it to them. I have seen a particular magician who, as well as making these sorts of wagers in almost every routine, OFTEN makes huge mistakes and stuffs up the trick. He always keeps the cash and ends up looking both incompetent and like a jackass. |
BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
One solution (used by both Juan Tamariz and Del Ray) is to start off by giving a spectator the money with the proviso that he must play the game. Then, when he "loses" his money, it takes the sting out of the procedure. After all, he's just giving your money back to you.
By the way, in all of the years that Del Ray did his blackjack routine, did anyone ever see him lose?
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
roi_tau Veteran user Israel 335 Posts |
I managed to transform a money loss (in reality, less than 5% of the times) to a great prediction routine.
About what Barry said, I play this game against three people so I can give the money in advance to one of them. They are all potential winners. And another great idea I learned from this post is: Make them know they see something unusual and special and, along with the prediction, this became a very nice routine Hope to publish it in the upcoming Geniis, Roi |
Dick Christian Inner circle Northern Virginia (Metro DC) 2619 Posts |
Whit Haydn gave the only correct answer. If you lose, you lose and are oligated to pay up -- and do so in way that does not make you look like a sore loser. The best way to avoid the problem is to select your material wisely -- i.e., routines that are 100% reliable, know it inside out, and then do it right. If you do that, the only way you can fail is if you make a mistake. I did just that a couple of years ago, lost my focus briefly with the result that I failed to pick the hand in which the spectator was holding holding my $100 bill. He won the bill fair and square, the crowd loved it -- especially when I made it plain that he got to keep the bill. BTW, the sponsor of the show offered to reimburse me for the loss -- an offer I declined.
One final bit of advice: If you're going to do such an effect in your show be sure you charge enough that you can easily afford to lose the bet.
Dick Christian
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