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Matt Richman
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I have been trying to learn the Perfect Riffle Shuffle / Table Faro out of Expert Card Technique for quite some time now. Does anyone have any tips on the move? A demo of the sleight is below.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrVsZ-7ec3k
Vandy Grift
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Paul Sherman used to be a member here. Maybe you can contact him.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Matt Richman
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Quote:
On 2008-07-30 14:01, Vandy Grift wrote:
Paul Sherman used to be a member here. Maybe you can contact him.


I just joined yesterday, I don't know many people yet. How can I contact him?
Vandy Grift
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http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/bb_pr......ser=3275

That's his profile. Click on "send a private message" I don't see him around much these days, but it looks like he did post something last week.


Make sure to "come correct".

You may even want to wait and see what kind of responses you get here, or do some searches, and find some of the things that have already been posted before you PM him.

I only mention Paul Sherman because he happens to be the person doing the shuffle in the video you linked.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Chris SD
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Mr. Sherman has been more than helpful with me in the past.

Still, the write-up for this particular move is in Expert Card Technique, and I would humbly suggest you start there.
Vandy Grift
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I agree with Chris SD. But to be fair, he did say that he has ECT and has been working on it for a while.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Matt Richman
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On 2008-07-30 14:11, Vandy Grift wrote:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/bb_pr......ser=3275

That's his profile. Click on "send a private message" I don't see him around much these days, but it looks like he did post something last week.


Make sure to "come correct".

You may even want to wait and see what kind of responses you get here, or do some searches, and find some of the things that have already been posted before you PM him.

I only mention Paul Sherman because he happens to be the person doing the shuffle in the video you linked.


What do you mean by "come correct"?
Vandy Grift
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On 2008-07-30 14:27, Matt Richman wrote:
What do you mean by "come correct"?


Be polite, ask nice. In that vein.

Not that you would be otherwise, just a friendly reminder.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Matt Richman
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Quote:
On 2008-07-30 14:26, Chris SD wrote:
Mr. Sherman has been more than helpful with me in the past.

Still, the write-up for this particular move is in Expert Card Technique, and I would humbly suggest you start there.


That's where I've been trying to learn it from.
Matt Richman
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Quote:
On 2008-07-30 14:28, Vandy Grift wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-07-30 14:27, Matt Richman wrote:
What do you mean by "come correct"?


Be polite, ask nice. In that vein.

Not that you would be otherwise, just a friendly reminder.


Ok, I'm going to send him a PM now.
The Mysterious Kid
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What exactly is your problem ??
Paul Sherman
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I responded to Matt's PM, but in case anyone else is trying to learn the move, here's what I said:

Matt,

Here are a few suggestions on learning the move:

1. It is a knack, but acquiring the knack happens faster if you understand what's supposed to be happening. If you watch the videos I've put up, you'll see that the weave is occuring above the thumbs. This is the critical element that makes the shuffle possible; you don't really riffle up so much as allow the cards to drop down.

2. Use new cards, but keep in mind that decks will often faro well in only one direction. If a deck isn't working for you, try turning it face up. Once the deck is broken in a bit (and you have more practice) you'll be able to faro either face-up or face-down.

3. When you first start, you'll probably find that you have trouble keeping the cards woven throughout the deck after the shuffle is complete but before you push the halves together. Remedy this by applying constant pressure with the pinky fingers on the outer short edges of the packets (near the outer corners). This will prevent the deck from unweaving. As you get better with the shuffle, you'll have enough control that this will be less necessary.

4. You don't want to develop the bad habit of tapping the packets before the shuffle. To avoid that, you need to start with the deck perfectly squared (the Erdnase method of drawing the thumbs and second fingers towards the inner corners is ideal). Once the deck is squared, you must handle it firmly to prevent it from unsquaring. This doesn't mean you use a death grip, but it does require more firmness than you probably use now. Grasp the deck from overhead with both hands simultaneously, locking it square. Lift up the top half with your right thumb and BEFORE you pull it away, lock the bottom half with your left thumb. Once both these packets are secure, you can separate them for the shuffle.

That's the best advice I can give you right now. Stick with it. It's not too terribly difficult once you understand what's supposed to be happening. Don't worry about cutting at 26 until you've got the weaving down.
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase



some youtube videos
Matt Richman
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Quote:
On 2008-07-30 15:02, Paul Sherman wrote:
I responded to Matt's PM, but in case anyone else is trying to learn the move, here's what I said:

Matt,

Here are a few suggestions on learning the move:

1. It is a knack, but acquiring the knack happens faster if you understand what's supposed to be happening. If you watch the videos I've put up, you'll see that the weave is occuring above the thumbs. This is the critical element that makes the shuffle possible; you don't really riffle up so much as allow the cards to drop down.

2. Use new cards, but keep in mind that decks will often faro well in only one direction. If a deck isn't working for you, try turning it face up. Once the deck is broken in a bit (and you have more practice) you'll be able to faro either face-up or face-down.

3. When you first start, you'll probably find that you have trouble keeping the cards woven throughout the deck after the shuffle is complete but before you push the halves together. Remedy this by applying constant pressure with the pinky fingers on the outer short edges of the packets (near the outer corners). This will prevent the deck from unweaving. As you get better with the shuffle, you'll have enough control that this will be less necessary.

4. You don't want to develop the bad habit of tapping the packets before the shuffle. To avoid that, you need to start with the deck perfectly squared (the Erdnase method of drawing the thumbs and second fingers towards the inner corners is ideal). Once the deck is squared, you must handle it firmly to prevent it from unsquaring. This doesn't mean you use a death grip, but it does require more firmness than you probably use now. Grasp the deck from overhead with both hands simultaneously, locking it square. Lift up the top half with your right thumb and BEFORE you pull it away, lock the bottom half with your left thumb. Once both these packets are secure, you can separate them for the shuffle.

That's the best advice I can give you right now. Stick with it. It's not too terribly difficult once you understand what's supposed to be happening. Don't worry about cutting at 26 until you've got the weaving down.


And I responded...

Dear Paul,

The following few sentences really helped;

"you don't really riffle up so much as allow the cards to drop down. "

"If a deck isn't working for you, try turning it face up."

"Once the deck is broken in a bit (and you have more practice) you'll be able to faro either face-up or face-down. "

"Remedy this by applying constant pressure with the pinky fingers on the outer short edges of the packets (near the outer corners)."

"Grasp the deck from overhead with both hands simultaneously, locking it square. Lift up the top half with your right thumb and BEFORE you pull it away, lock the bottom half with your left thumb."

Also, I already do Paul Gertner's trick, Unshuffled. The reason I am studying the Perfect Riffle Shuffle / Table Faro is to be able to do a table version. Finally, I can cut 26 by 26 95 percent of the time now.

Thanks for your time,

Matt Richman
trashmanf
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Nice find Matt, that tabled faro is really clean and sweet. I like his comment on his youtube someone says "it just looks like a regular shuffle" and he replies "thank you" :-D
Steven Youell
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At Lybray.com they have one of my CD's that demonstrate and teach a faro shuffle that is nearly indistinguishable from a riffle shuffle. I make no profit from this CD anymore-- I just thought you might find it helpful.

Steven Youell
The Mysterious Kid
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On 2008-07-30 18:35, Steven Youell wrote:
At Lybray.com they have one of my CD's that demonstrate and teach a faro shuffle that is nearly indistinguishable from a riffle shuffle. I make no profit from this CD anymore-- I just thought you might find it helpful.

Steven Youell

Isn't that called a butt or interlace shuffle??
The table faro has always the tell that the corners have to touch.
silverking
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No offense Mysterious, but do you REALLY think Steven Youell would market a CD teaching the faro shuffle if it wasn't a faro shuffle?

He wouldn't, and he didn't.
adamc
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Quote:
4. You don't want to develop the bad habit of tapping the packets before the shuffle. To avoid that, you need to start with the deck perfectly squared (the Erdnase method of drawing the thumbs and second fingers towards the inner corners is ideal). Once the deck is squared, you must handle it firmly to prevent it from unsquaring. This doesn't mean you use a death grip, but it does require more firmness than you probably use now. Grasp the deck from overhead with both hands simultaneously, locking it square. Lift up the top half with your right thumb and BEFORE you pull it away, lock the bottom half with your left thumb. Once both these packets are secure, you can separate them for the shuffle.


Hi Paul, thanks for posting your advice, I wish I'd read this when I first started learning the table faro, as I've already developed the bad habit of tapping the packets together! It's definitely a tough habit to kick!

Out of curiousity, what kind of success rate do you have with the table faro? Can you get it every time? On a new deck that's been worked in, I can get it pretty consistently, but as the deck wears on, sometimes my success rate drops to around 40% or so, although usually the top cards are interlaced perfectly and it's only the bottom few cards that are giving me problems. Great youtube video by the way!

Adam
The Mysterious Kid
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Quote:
On 2008-07-30 20:54, silverking wrote:
No offense Mysterious, but do you REALLY think Steven Youell would market a CD teaching the faro shuffle if it wasn't a faro shuffle?

Nope, never said that.
I just watched GPS Vol.1 agai and Forte makes a diffrence between interlace shuffles and faro shuffles.
In other words a table faro has to look like a riffle shuffle.
IanKendall
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There was a big brou-ha-ha over on the Genii board about the difference between a faro and a riffle shuffle. The end result of Steven's shuffle is that the cards are interlaced, and it looks a whole lot like a riffle shuffle. Everything else is name calling and semantics.

If you are learning a shuffle for effects, the more the move looks like a regular shuffle the better (for example, I teach three different table faro techniques on BHMME, but I still think Steven's looks better).

Take care, Ian
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