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taddo
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From the little darlings, but I thought you would like to read it here:

I have known Eric for a long time and he was a great president of my local club for years. I have to say I am a little concerned about a recent program that has been marketed and sold called Mission Nutrition through Brad Ross. It is an assembly program about nutrition that is being sold for only $697. The problem I have with it is they say it is the only program out there about nutrition and that no one else is doing a show like it at all. The creators of the program on their teleconference said the idea came directly from Eric Paul and no one else is performing these types of shows. That is my problem because for the last five years I have created and been performing probably the most successful program about Nutrition in the country. Eric is well aware of my program and I have even recently spoke with him about it at a lecture. I am not saying that no one can perform a magic show about nutrition. In fact there is a magician in New Jersey that performs one as well. To say there is no one else doing it when you are fully aware there is someone is my problem. In fact Mike Miller performs the program for me full time and together we perform over 600 shows a year. When I asked Brad Ross about the program and if the creators were nutritionists his response was "I am just the middle man marketing it." So ok you really don't know about the program but you are willing to sell it to make a buck?? Also if the program is so great why are you even selling it?? I know I wouldn't sell my program with all of its success. So as magicians are we selling shows that are created with the purpose to make money or are you out performing everyday??
tacrowl
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I know a magician in Maryland you didn't mention who is also working nutrition shows - his was developed about eight years ago and is still going strong. Saying no one else performs these type of shows offers an insight to the lack of study that went into the "product". Just another reason to avoid the things these guys offer.
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Eric Paul
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Here's the comment I left on this post...

Taddo,

Get your facts straight before posting, dude. I have NO desire to be drawn into any controversy over something I have NOTHING to do with!

Both Matt and Jason are past coaching clients of mine. Their program is excellent and I certainly suggested they market it as an additional income stream for themselves. There are only so many shows you can do. It's a smart move.

If your program is great, you SHOULD be selling it! It's good for all of us! Are you afraid of the competition, Taddo? I would hope you are more secure than that.

I cannot comment on anything in their sales materials for the program because I had NOTHING to do with it at all.

Please leave my name out of any "dumps" until you get the facts straight!

I'm ****ed off Taddo. You should have had the decency to pick up the *** phone and call a fellow local magician who lives and breathes right in your own market with you and has done nothing but try and support you during your career and help out other magicians in the area.

REAL Bone-head move dude!

EP
Eric Paul
"Dedicated to Bringing Your Magic to the PAYING Public!"
Web: http://www.MoreMoneyWithMagic.com
Blog: http://moremoneywithmagic.com/blog
Members ONLY Site: http://www.Magic-Mastermind.com
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Brian Lehr
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So, you're upset at the creators for not giving you credit; you're upset at Eric for not defending you; and you're upset at Brad for not knowing the product in detail.

The whole world stinks, doesn't it?

Oh, and since you've now got this same thread started in two different forums (another classy move), here's my reply from the other thread:

Way to drag a Eric's name through the mud on a public forum. Now there's a class act! Maybe Mr. Nutritionist should take a few lessons from Miss Manners!

Brian

PS. I have the Nutrition program (long before the teleseminar), and I think it's great!
RobertBloor
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Just the thought that only 1 or 2 guys are doing a show based on nutrition is laughable. Why are magicians so stinking arrogant to think they've got the school assembly market cornered?

The guys who are doing it and actually making a living are probably too busy to run to The Magic Café and post about it.

I do wonder though, speaking of selling "programs" for extra profit...of those programs in question, how many actually ARE nurtitionists and doctors or consulted with them in the creation of these "programs."

I mean, Kevin Trudeau has a dozen books out hailing the cure for cancer, arthritis, diabetes, obesity etc etc - yet I don't think he ever went to medical school.

So really - any of those creators in question actually pediatricians or nutritionists? Because my guess is it takes more than just magic or a puppet saying to eat your vegetables.

Robert
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
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Blair Marshall
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Robert,

Then are you saying that unless a magician is also a professional in the specific field he should not be able to / would not be able to, convey a message to a specific audience using the medium of magic and entertainment??? As example:

Math show
Nutrition
Space
Bullying
Reading

etc., etc.

"Because my guess is it takes more than just magic or a puppet saying to eat your vegetables."

Probably not. LOLO In my work with my safety show I get continuous feedback on the amazing retention of the show's key messages by my young audiences. Why, because the "rules" are woven into the show/effects/story and the children seem to absorb the information/message more readily when presented in an entertaining, magical manner.

For my show, I did research with the appropriate professionals (both law enforcement and medical), and then took my experience as a parent and incorporated the points that I deemed the most important and added the magic. I also have an inner conviction on the importance of safety rules etc. so maybe this also comes out in my performance?

I would like to think that a person who is capable in conveying a specific message to an audience would not actually have to be a specialist in the field. Should they answer questions, or act as an authority I would like to think then that they should have an education in the subject at hand.

ie. I may tell children to not open a gate to a closed pool area, or climb a fence to get in, but I certainly wouldn't give the building info to a parent on how to construct a suitable fence or barrier.

Blair
Ken Northridge
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The great Max Howard has been doing a nutrition show for decades. Early goers of Kidabra (called the Internation Festival of Children's Magicians back then) will remember his lecture on this subject. There's nothing new or exclusive about a nutrition show.
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Blair Marshall
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There is a lot of hyperbole in the ad, however, if you were a nutritionist and wanted to do a presentation to get your message across, here is a ready made one.
Tweak it to where you are happy with it. The only thing "exclusive" is, of course, the name, script, designs etc. You have to decide if the pre-work done for you warrants the cost.

A non-performer going to a writer, a magic consultant, a graphic design person would pay MANY times the amount being asked to put this program together. EVEN if it was only a hundred bucks here and a hundred bucks there.

Then again, for no cost they could also just stand in front of a dry erase board and outline their points, I am sure that would really catch the attention of a couple of hundred 5 - 8 year olds!!!

Blair
tacrowl
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Quote:
On 2008-08-01 08:24, Blair Marshall wrote:

they could also just stand in front of a dry erase board and outline their points, I am sure that would really catch the attention of a couple of hundred 5 - 8 year olds!!!


Depends on how they present it Blair. Smile I'm sure you've seen acts with expensive props that don't have any showmanship skills! Its all in the presentation.
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Blair Marshall
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Hmmmm...... I will bite on that one. But I would say the majority of nutritionists standing in front of a drawing board would not be able to keep the interest of a couple of hundred 5-8 year olds AND get their message across.

Yes, an entertainer (not a prop exhibitor) would be able to do it with minimal props.

Blair
Rich B.
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I have a problem with all the marketing strategies that are being sold to magicians in general. Its basically the same repetitive stuff being "re-boxed".

I know Eric Paul from our local IBM club. Since I joined the club (about 10 years ago)he was our best president and a fine magician. He helped me on a few different occasions. On the level that I know Eric, he is a nice guy. He lectured at our club on his marketing course about 6 years ago. I purchased his stuff and found good information in it. I'm a part time guy now but hope to go full time in the future. If you apply the methods in Eric's course, I'm sure you can do well. The key word is APPLY. You do need a basis of were to start with marketing and sales and this filled the bill for me. Of course I didn't apply all the techniques which explains why I didn't make the leap to full time. Maybe some day.

I started to realize that a lot of this marketing material is very repetitive when Brad Ross lectured at our club about 3 years ago. He came across as a "mini" Eric Paul. I now had a basis for comparison from Eric Paul's material and it sounded like Deja Vu. Most of the members of the club felt exactly the same as I did. I also reviewed material from Dave Dee and John Kaplan and its very similar. I'm not saying you don't need to learn any of this...I'm saying that you don't need to purchase all the material from the newest "marketing guru". You just need to learn the basic techniques and APPLY them.

Todd (Taddo) is a very good friend of mine. I watched him develop his magic of nutrition show over the years. He is a Nutritionist by trade with a back round in sales. The show itself is great because of the way he is able to promote the importance of nutrition using his credentials , but the real magic is how he made this program so successful. It was a ton of hard work and ton of meetings with the right people.

The bottom line is, I can see why Todd would be concerned about the way "Mission Nutrition" is being marketed by Brad Ross. I'm sure Nutrition shows have been around for quite a long time. I know for sure Todd is not afraid of competition at all, that's what business is all about. I think most people missed his point. When someone states that a "show in the box" is unique and no one else is doing it, that is not a true statement. Of course we all know this as "marketing". These Gurus are concerned with finding new ways to make money (of course that's what we should all strive to do). But you also have to be aware of this before you plunk down $700 for a program that is going to make you the most successful entertainer in your area.

Todd is just defending his "Magic Of Nutrition Show, and letting everyone know that nutrition shows are not as exclusive as the claims being made by Brad Ross. Isn't that what competition is all about.

Rich B.
Blair Marshall
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I see we have dual threads going on the same topic! Or, folks are trying to keep them the same.

Blair

Posted: Aug 1, 2008 10:45am
WARNING******WARNING******WARNING...............A head's up!!!!!

http://www.missionnutrition.ca

Folks may want to check out the above site, a name registered to Kelloggs, I don't think I would want to chance using one of their registered TM for a similar show/product. (Nutrition education)

You may want to check it out, ESPECIALLY if you are a Canadian performer considering this program and the legal ramifications!!

Blair
Eric Paul
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Way to go Marshall!

Thanks for bringing that to our attention! That could be sticky.

EP
Eric Paul
"Dedicated to Bringing Your Magic to the PAYING Public!"
Web: http://www.MoreMoneyWithMagic.com
Blog: http://moremoneywithmagic.com/blog
Members ONLY Site: http://www.Magic-Mastermind.com
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John Martin
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It NEVER ceases to amaze me, in this day and age of information technologies, that something as simple as a GOOGLE search wouldn't have been performed to find such precious information.

All the best,

John
Donald Dunphy
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Wow! I did a google search for "Mission Nutrition". A lot of people & companies & organizations are using that phrase.

Kellogg's might not be able to register that phrase, or title, but only their trademarked logo for it. If you aren't using their logo, there might not be any problems.

- Donald

P.S. This is not legal advice. Seek out a professional.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
tparrett62
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Weird- directly from the website- "My friend, welcome to “Mission Nutrition” Yes, we know, that’s a great name! And yes, it’s copyrighted so you can’t take it and use it without our permission).

Hyperbole? Misstatement? Deja Vu?

Personally, I'd be very reluctant to present a school show that I didn't own the domain to.
John Martin
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As Britney said...Oops I did it again.....LOL
Blair Marshall
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It would seem that both the .com and the .ca have the name taken. My only concern would be the .ca one and how it is based on a TM of Kelloggs (an international company). Not sure what international laws are concerning this. Espcially since they have to do with the same thing (generally an educational nutrition program for children and schools).

At the least, there would be a confusion in the market here (Canada) as to who you were.

Blair
Creative Coach
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How successful is the program? Besides the legal ramifications, how much does the show actually make? A LOT of performers create these show-in-a-box after a few shows. Most are less than an inch thick in actual educational fact or content. I hear about them all the time from superintendents and school principals. I call it flavor-of-the-day. Whatever is in the news they think is important to a school system.

In my experience (30+ yrs) the Caféteria mgr is right up there with the janitor in the school ladder. Nutrition is not high on the list. It is unfortunate but true. Math & reading skills are still the most important things to a school.

Here's my warning: DO NOT buy any program until you examined it's marketability in your area! Then actually learn about the subject! If you don't, it shows!

All The Best!
John Cooper
tparrett62
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From the Kelloggs' site-

"Trademarks & Copyright
Kellogg Canada Inc. and Dietitians of Canada are registered owners of their respective intellectual properties displayed on this site; and has the exclusive right to use these trademarks and copyrighted designs across Canada. We consider all our intellectual properties to be very important assets of our Company and Association and protect them from unauthorized use by others for their own commercial purposes. We often use an * symbol to indicate which items are trademarks, referring to a footnote explaining our ownership as shown at the bottom of this page. Occasionally, we use a T or a ® symbol instead; or we simply use a differentiating font style."

Every time they (Kelloggs) use the phrase "Mission Nutrition" on the site, they use the trademark symbol. I agree with Blair's post above- if I were in Canada, I'd be REALLY wary about using the name.

Here's some info about trademarks(I know it's from Wikipedia, but it's a start).

"The extent to which a trademark owner may prevent unauthorized use of trademarks which are the same as or similar to its trademark depends on various factors such as whether its trademark is registered, the similarity of the trademarks involved, the similarity of the products and/or services involved, and whether the owner’s trademark is well known.

If a trademark has not been registered, some jurisdictions (especially Common Law countries) offer protection for the business reputation or goodwill which attaches to unregistered trademarks through the tort of passing off. Passing off may provide a remedy in a scenario where a business has been trading under an unregistered trademark for many years, and a rival business starts using the same or a similar mark.

If a trademark has been registered, then it is much easier for the trademark owner to demonstrate its trademark rights and to enforce these rights through an infringement action. Unauthorized use of a registered trademark need not be intentional in order for infringement to occur, although damages in an infringement lawsuit will generally be greater if there was an intention to deceive.

For trademarks which are considered to be well known, infringing use may occur where the use occurs in relation to products or services which are not the same as or similar to the products or services in relation to which the owner's mark is registered."
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