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baggins321 Loyal user United States 223 Posts |
I'm in college and do use magic as an opener and comfort/rapport builder at times. I've also studied every pua system out there, and post regularly on masf and rsd and venusian arts etc etc. I think it can be a great tool, but it's all about your intentions. Personally I wish everyone was a pua, I think women and men would have a lot more fun. Instead of how I see it now, girly men being wallflowers at clubs, trying to buy women's attention through gifts and compliments etc. Anyways, enough of that rant.
Here are some magic/cold reading routines I use with women in clubs/parties/etc: 1. Sponge Balls - I've learned Jay Noblezada's complete routine off his Sponge dvd, I highly recommend it. I will be switching soon however to sponge bunnies, because of the inherent sexual innuendo that goes along with bunnies multiplying in the woman's hand. I think it will play over much better with college girls. 2. Style's ring finger routine - This is a good cold reading routine, and I transition into an effect I found on youtube with Cyril Takayama. You take the girl's ring and have it fly up a rubber band. It's also a good compliance test etc. You could go from this into palm reading, and if you're really good, there's an effect by Luke Jermay in his 7 deceptions book with palmistry. 3. PK touch routine - This is one I'm currently working on, and am very excited about. The first time I saw this applied to pickup was from derren brown where he did a pk touch routine on 3 strippers. If you want some good handlings on it purchase Daniel Garcia's dvd on Ellusionist's Guerilla's Guide to loops. Those are the only kino heavy routines I can think of off the top of my head. Other routines I do in the spectator's hand are usually vanishes/transpositions, utilizing my black widow (you can use an m5 system or raven or whatever else floats your boat). Those have gotten great reactions as well. |
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Airave Regular user Germany 137 Posts |
Gaddy, I was referring to the attitude of AD,
not neccesseraly any particular book or system. Open to Learning and Learning is what I mean. Even if you already know it all at least Encourage Learning to those who yet don't. And Learn yourself again as well. NLP and PUA are BS? Perhaps, but how is that really different from TT's, Santa Claus and other "Magical" Lies and Illusions? It ain't the Tool, all Tools are Good, but how the User of those Tools uses those Tools. You understand. Touch is a powerful thing and can be used Magically, I think some of us have wondered way afar from the Pointof this Topic. Anybody else have some good on-topic suggestions? Edit: Like baggins321, Right on topic! Somehow your post got ahead of mine. |
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AntonDreaming Special user Gloucester by the sea 622 Posts |
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On 2008-08-16 19:21, gaddy wrote: Hence why I used the word most instead of ALL. Anton |
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Jason Simonds Veteran user Pensacola, FL 318 Posts |
Pardon my ignorance but what is NLP?
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SoCalPro Inner circle Southern California 1634 Posts |
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On 2008-08-18 17:50, Jason Simonds wrote: I may be old but I think it means Nobody Likes Person touching. (Sorry..I couldn't seem to make the first letters BOLD) |
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snipes New user 69 Posts |
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On 2008-08-17 16:24, Airave wrote: I actually don't think it's possible for the Pickup Arts to be 'bs' considering it deals with human nature. For example, one tip they preach is "don't appear needy", for example, going up to a girl and buying her a drink after telling her she's beautiful will make you look like a clone. Imagine how many other guys have said the same thing to her, she wont take you seriously. But what if George Clooney or Johnny Depp did the same thing, would the women react differently? Of course, why? Because they realize these men can have any girl they want and all the sudden the men are superior to them, not the other way around. Since most of us aren't celebrities or rich then we must apply the same sort of dynamics to the situation. Pickup lines don't work for a reason because if they did then every guy would be getting laid. But then again, this is beyond the scope of this thread |
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bryanlonden Special user Maryland 583 Posts |
Well, here's my take on it...
Here's what to do. Go up to the girl and introduce yourself, talk to her, and ask for her phone number. Either you get it or you don't. Yeah..it's that simple. Then in a few days, call her and talk for a few minutes and say you've gotta run cuz you're busy. Text her the next day, and tell her to call you later that night. Don't answer, but call her back....the next day. Just bust on her and make fun of her for every mistake she makes..and every now and then act super sweet and show that you do have a soul. Make her the needy one. She'll be so attracted to you because she'll want to change you into prince charming. But then again, this has nothing to do with magic. But then again, picking up women usually doesn't...lol |
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
LOL! Awesome take on it, dude! Like I said earlier, "If you're gonna treat a girl like a...."
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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bryanlonden Special user Maryland 583 Posts |
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On 2008-08-29 18:21, gaddy wrote: Haha, I'm telling you, man, this is TOO easy. Plus it's sooo much fun, especially if you have a sarcastic sense of humor, such as I do. Every girl just KNOWS that you want her...once you show her that she isn't anything special to you..you're set! I should make a DVD on this and pitch it to Ellusionist. Really, though, just go to parties or social events, do some magic, and get in the spotlight. Girls love entertainers! Then you can introduce yourself, since she's already intrigued. You can be the shyest guy in the world, but if you appear and act confident, people will believe that you are. Think about public speaking, which is, or so I've heard, the number one fear amongst people. If you get up in front of people and speak with confidence, and not under the horribly false assumption everyone is simply judging you, then that's how they will see you. Same thing with girls. Girls usually hear stupid pickup lines and are far too often the victims of mating calls such as, "Yo, girl!" and, "OYY, what up, shawty?!"; they aren't used to the "Hi, I'm ______" approach. If you are looking to meet women by using magic, then OK, I can't knock you for it. Just create a character who is confident and optimistic (even if you are shy, play the role!!), and you have nothing but good things to look forward to. |
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MrAlex New user Indiana 51 Posts |
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On 2008-08-29 15:15, bryanlonden wrote: Nice stuff....Taking the Neg(ing) to new heights. You turn it on and set it to super strength. Had a good laugh. |
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jimhlou Inner circle 3698 Posts |
I'm not a PUA, and I don't practice NLP. I did once do the Invisible Deck for a nurse at a hospital - she was blown away and wanted to take me home. My wife was really ******.
Jim |
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bryanlonden Special user Maryland 583 Posts |
Yes! The Invisible Deck is a knockout!
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web New user Roanoke, VA. 25 Posts |
As far as NLP goes, I consider it to be a mix of common sense, a few useful psychological techniques, and a fair amount of BS. About the same with PUA.
I love the Invisible Deck; generally I come up to someone and tell them there's a card flipped over, and they will know what it is...(shoulder touch) now. Then, of course, they find they've guessed correctly. Then, I may follow up with some genuine suggestion. This is how I proceed with most effects...I don't think, "How will I be touching them?" I just incorporate it into the trick. You can add an anchor at any point. You can touch for misdirection. The most recent thing I've done is I'll tell someone to hold out their hand before I leave and ask to "Not focus on the top of their hand" -touches top of hand with finger-, but pay attention to their palm, and tell me when they begin to experience a tingling sensation on their hand. Once it's there, I tell them it will get stronger, and at that point they're freaked just from that. It ends with them having blood on their palm. Doing a pulse stop is very physical, having them hold your wrist. Now that I think about it, rarely do I do a trick which doesn't involve contact at some point. I guess I just like incorporating as many senses into a trick as possible. (generally Kin. & Vis.) |
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K_B_G Regular user 136 Posts |
Magic Santa, you are a real laugh, pal... ANGER MANAGMENT, BRO!! You seem to have some issues with life, dude. Isn't the wife giving you much attention lately?
Regarding the Venusian Arts/PUA... I won't even go into that, as it just sparks debate... Regarding the kino/touching... you don't need to touch... If you are looking to touch, then you are not a PUA. She will touch you first, man- meaning you are locked in; from then on, let the natural course of things flow. Anything can be adapted to touching the spectator in A NON-SEXUAL WAY! But using magic to kino isn't needed. If anything, touching some stranger before you are vibing them is going to turn them off you big-time... If you playing your game right, she will be touching you and start doing a lot more of the talking...the rest is easy. LEAD. LEAD. LEAD. Check out Greg Wilson for some cool material. He is also a master of social dynamics. For PUA, check out Mystery Method, Neil Strauss, David De Angelo and, the best of the lot, Real Social Dynamics...get all their vids. PUA isn’t really about picking up women; it is a journey of self-enlightenment. Women or a loving girlfriend are just the bonuses that come along with the journey. |
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
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On 2008-10-01 08:36, K_B_G wrote: And here I've been practicing Buddhism for years like a sucker! Quotes like this just amuse the heck out of me!
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Aus Special user Australia 996 Posts |
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gaddy wrote: And quotes like that remind me of this quote: "It’s better to shut your mouth and let people think you’re a fool than open your mouth and prove it." But quite frankly, everyone on this forum here could heed that advice from the bloody childish bickering that seems to be going on here. That said, let me add a bit of class of debate to this garbage tip of one-upmanship. One of the many interesting facets of magic for me has always been the lengths and degrees that magic can be taken when people who choose to be creative try to explore new boundaries for magic as a art form. Bryanlonde said: "But then again, this has nothing to do with magic. But then again, picking up women usually doesn't." What if someone said that about rehabilitation, and where would you think Project Magic by David Copperfield, or it’s counterpart Healing of Magic (http://www.magictherapy.com/), would have been if both of these took that train of thought? Magic, from my understanding, has many more layers to it. For young people, the very necessity of standing in front of an audience and performing not only builds confidence but requires you to muster courage (just have a look at the stage fright threads that litter the beginners section if you don't believe me). Or we could go on about what drug awareness, alcohol and stranger danger have anything to do with themes for magic in the school show circuit. I think I’ve made my point; what magic is used for is what we choose it to be and hardly anything is irrelevant. Gaddy said: "The "Art of Seduction" -as PUA was called back in the '70s and '80s and in that lame book by Robert Green (a shame because his other book, "The 48 Laws of Power," was quite good...) isn't an art at all. It's merely a number of rather obvious techniques for making someone think you're interested in them for something other than their physical attributes --or whatever else you might be interested in them for (perhaps for watching you magically put her ring onto your shoelaces or something...). My PUA philosophy? If you're going to treat a woman like a ho, Buy the Best... And be a gentleman, pay the nice lady." Yet magicians will go to a magic book to learn key aspects of what makes misdirection work, ie: the spectator will perceive something as important when the performer says it’s important, or the spectator will look where the magician looks. All of this could be considered obvious, but it is transcribed in magic books ten fold anyway. My point is that human behavior is far from transparent in most cases. If it were so easy, why would whole books of the like of Maximum Entertainment, Strong Magic and Magic and Showmanship exist? If I’m not mistaken, isn’t the whole reason for these books to better yourself as a performer and understand your audience better? But, of course, all this is meant to be obvious, right? Anyway, at risk of getting attacked myself, I end now. Magically, Aus |
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
You think I'm a fool? Fair enough. That's OK, I'll get over it... Eventually! I might have to go kino on someone, though, to prove I'm not an AFC... Any volunteers?
OK. As to your non-insulting point, it's true that one would do well to take wisdom where one can find it. If you want to take your wisdom from a guy with a fuzzy hat, a lot of weird acronyms, and too much eyeliner - go for it! It's been found in more unlikely places, I guess. However, the magic books you cite speak about human perception and behavior as it relates to magic and misdirection. None of them (as I read 'em) speak of their observations as a "philosophy" or a journey of "self enlightenment". Well, maybe Jeff McBride's stuff, but he's coming from an entirely different point of view. Fitzkee, Ortiz and Ken Weber are not putting on airs or portraying their observations as anything other than what they are. The whole lipstick (eyeliner?) on a pig thing... These are techniques for magic, not solving world hunger, fighting poverty, or ending racism. Or, even hooking up with hot chicks! But you folks here on these PUA threads do like to claim it is so, and that's where I'd just like to insert a reality check. You go from talking about touching a girl vs. complimenting her, or buying a her a drink and "getting your kino on" - and then, when challenged on what this has to do with magic, you go into a spiel about charitable organizations and "self enlightenment". Seems kinda off the mark to me, almost to the point of self-deception... Are you doing magic, macking on girls in bars, or philanthropy here? Again, if you want to behave like this - that's fine! It'll probably even help your magic to be more intimate and entertaining. You might even get some nookie out of it. But please, don't fool yourself into thinking you're doing anything other than what you actually are.
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Aus Special user Australia 996 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-10-03 18:20, gaddy wrote: Giving credence to the saying "never judge a book by it’s cover," I guess you could say. Quote:
However, the magic books you cite speak about human perception and behavior as it relates to magic and misdirection. None of them (as I read 'em) speak of their observations as a "philosophy" or a journey of "self enlightenment". And nether was I. What I was trying to do was make a point about what you said in the following quote, in particular the part about things being obvious. Quote:
It's merely a number of rather obvious techniques for making someone think you're interested in them... Human beings are not always obvious. I know this first hand since another great past time (besides magic) for me is poker, and one of the great sayings there is "It’s not a card game played by people, it's people playing a card game," meaning that the PEOPLE element are the most important rather than the turn of the cards themselves. You need to know what a person biting the corner of his lip means, how a person places their bets, do they push in wholeheartedly, or do they move in with hesitation? All this means the difference between winning the hand and losing it (great cards help too, obviously). This in turn means, should I bluff to scare him out of the pot, should I fold if I sense his playing with a made hand? All of which are techniques calculable by studying human form. If you’re a poker enthusiast at all, there’s a litany of books on the subject of poker tells that would elude one to think that things are far from obvious. To bring the point back to magic, the techniques pertained in the books previously mentioned work on the same basis. We calculate our actions in how we perform based on human responses, applause, laughter, bewilderment and what elects them. PUA is no different. Quote:
None of them (as I read 'em) speak of their observations as a "philosophy" or a journey of "self enlightenment". Nothing was ever said about enlightenment, but since you mentioned it, let's run with the subject. Since when has enlightenment been defined as when someone say’s it is, in the written form or other wise? I'm sure Maximum Entertainment doesn't confess itself to be a path of enlightenment, but does that stop someone feeling enlightened when they feel they have executed all the principles and have achieved what the book professes, “MAXMUIM ENTERTIANMENT”? Of course not, no book can make us feel anything if we don’t wont it to. But equally, if it strikes a cord with you, who said it can't ether? So comments about things being enlightening or not are a complete waste of time. It’s up to the individual. Quote:
You go from talking about touching a girl vs. complimenting her, or buying a her a drink and "getting your kino on" - and then, when challenged on what this has to do with magic, you go into a spiel about charitable organizations and "self enlightenment". Seems kinda off the mark to me, almost to the point of self-deception... Are you doing magic, macking on girls in bars, or philanthropy here? Ok, so let's put things into a box then. If we were to say rehabilitation has nothing to do with magic and should only belong to the rehab institutions, there would be no such thing as Project Magic or Healing of Magic. To bring the above further into line with magic (at your request), how would you define card magic? Is it stage or close-up? Some would argue both. Is Slydini's Paper Balls Over the Head strictly magic, or just comical entrainment? Since we are magicians, shouldn't we be doing only magical things? See where such clear distinctions being made can lead? Magic has grown as an art form and it's versatility in it's applications because of inclusions, not exclusions. And to exclude something as one or the other is only limiting ones self and their chosen pursuit. If the question then comes to if the inclusion is helpful or not, then that's really just a matter of opinion. No matter what that opinion may be, people can respectfully disagree without throwing verbal insults at each other. At the end of the day, all this thread has become is some people's dislike for the term PUA and it's connotations that it brings. And if you all find it so laughable or abhorrent, then here’s a tip: Stay away from it. Magically, Aus |
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
Quote:
Giving credence to the saying "never judge a book by it’s cover," I guess you could say. If you say so, but I've seen that show and read that book... Quote:
And nether was I. What I was trying to do was make a point about what you said in the following quote, in particular the part about things being obvious. In fact, that idea was forwarded. Not by you, but it was indeed. You responded to my response to that idea; ergo, I responded to your response. You now state that you don't agree with that, and that's all good my me. Quote:
Human beings are not always obvious. I know this first hand since another great past time (besides magic) for me is poker, and one of the great sayings there is "It’s not a card game played by people, it's people playing a card game," meaning that the PEOPLE element are the most important rather than the turn of the cards themselves. You need to know what a person biting the corner of his lip means, how a person places their bets, do they push in wholeheartedly, or do they move in with hesitation? All this means the difference between winning the hand and losing it (great cards help too, obviously). This in turn means, should I bluff to scare him out of the pot, should I fold if I sense his playing with a made hand? All of which are techniques calculable by studying human form. If you’re a poker enthusiast at all, there’s a litany of books on the subject of poker tells that would elude one to think that things are far from obvious. You're talking about poker, and then about picking up chicks. What does that have to do with magic? Is your magic so spontaneous and unscripted that you react off-the-cuff to any and every response your audience displays? If so, kudos to you! That's some strong magic, there! Here I am, stuck on a script like a sucker! Oh, sure, I have a few improv opportunities to keep it interesting, but you're talking about a whole new realm that's pretty much uncharted! I'd like to see you work. Maybe you'd be a guru... Quote:
Nothing was ever said about enlightenment...... In fact, it was. By K_G_B -right above our exchange. Which was what I was referring to in the first place. Please re-read the thread. Quote:
I insulted you? Exactly what did I say to you to insult you? You called me a fool by way of your pithy quote if I remember correctly. I certainly didn't refer to you in such a manner. Yes, I challenged your theory, but no insult was intended and no insulting names were used. I suppose you could argue that I insulted the guru "Mystery" by way of the eyeliner crack, but he's a public figure and thus is open to such critiques. My opinion is no match for his basic cable reality show fame, his slightly above average ratings for his demo and time slot, his ghostwritten books, his online and in-person "Mystery Method" classes you can purchase, and his adoring fan-sites that litter the Internet, and thus I concede this point to him... Quote:
Sure! I've got no problem with this sort of behavior -if it helps your magic, then it's all good. At the top of this thread, I stated that my dislike of the whole PUA thing stems from the "success seminar guru" mentality that people like Mystery use to fleece the gullible AFGs (to use your jargon) out of their hard-earned cash. But if you take public issue with what I say, please don't be insulted if I choose to respond in kind. Good luck with your magic, and the lifestyle!
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Aus Special user Australia 996 Posts |
Quote:
You're talking about poker, and then about picking up chicks. What does that have to do with magic? Is your magic so spontaneous and unscripted that you react off-the-cuff to any and every response your audience displays? There are many things that aren’t related to magic that use similar principles, Gaddy, and the point I was trying to make was just a small comparison of a few. Poker uses body language to help a player play a better hand, and magicians use known and more decipherable body language and emotion as Targets for their theatrical principles. PUA uses principles to get the necessary responses in the arena of courtship. I will agree that the end goal is different in every case, but the underlying principle is the same. If you want to look at direct links, how about Cold Reading and Poker? Cold Reading uses observations of the subject and their appearance to fuel the content of the reading in the same way that poker players read their opposition as to know how to play their hand. And as for doing magic off-the-cuff, how about Vernon’s “The Trick that Cannot Be Explained,” where there is no defined method but simply a basic education of a number of outs and the magician being astute enough to be able to know when to employ each one when the time comes. And not to mention the cold reading said earlier, which you could put into the same boat. You say "off-the-cuff" as if it’s a new concept to magic, but it’s in fact very much part of it. There are comparisons to be drawn if people are willing to connect the dots, but people have to be willing to look. Quote:
I was under the understanding that you was saying that I said something about enlightenment, which was the context of what I said. But in the end, what I said applies much to K_G_B as is does to anyone. I make no distinctions about that. Quote:
Sure! I've got no problem with this sort of behavior -if it helps your magic, then it's all good. At the top of this thread, I stated that my dislike of the whole PUA thing stems from the "success seminar guru" mentality that people like Mystery use to fleece the gullible AFGs (to use your jargon) out of their hard-earned cash. My issue is not your opinion, it’s your tone. Maybe some of you guys can learn something from PUA about the art of conversation so next time when you feel compelled to throw innuendo and snide comments around the place in order to get your opinion across, you can stop yourself so future threads can be civil debates, not slinging matches. As a side note, it seems that Mystery and his so-called "Mystery Method" is the poster child of debate for PUA on this thread. Well, I want to put on the record that I think the Neil Strauss approach is a LOT more classier in it’s objectives than Mystery and his method, where Mystery is almost exclusively about one night stands. Magically, Aus |
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