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MagicOfT Regular user NYC 141 Posts 
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No I am not friends with the creator. I do know however he is a gentleman and very helpful when I have had questions about his product. I also believe that The Game is a very useful tool. The method has been thought of before, but to my knowledge, I do not think such a compilation of things one can do with this technique has been in print before. Mr.Crowe has brought together many different concepts and has added his own techniques and presentational ploys to enhance a mere concept.
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts
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I am in complete agreement now this should have been a private, limited, high end release. Frustrations have been vented to me in private and I feel some professional toes might be being stepped on now, and these are my peers and associates we are talking about and I side with them.
Jay, You are a good guy, I really believe that. I know you think you are doing the right thing, that is why you are doing it! At the same time, if you were advised differently in private, there seems to be a need for professional courtesy and understanding. I wish the best to all involved parties. I trust there can be a peaceful conclusion and harmonic resolution here. To right actions, Jerome
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
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Tony Razzano Inner circle South River, NJ 1600 Posts
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Sorry, meant as a PM.
Best regards,
<BR>Tony Razzano, Past President, PEA Winner of the PEA"s Bascom Jones and Bob Haines Awards |
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chr!s Regular user newcastle 163 Posts
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So essentially, to clarify, Jay should not have released this, because certain parties wanted to keep it to themselves?
Again, I'm just after a little clarity... CL
"you can't see your own rub-a-dub..."
-richard sanders |
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Frank A. Glastone New user 54 Posts
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I think theres' several things going on here.
One thing is the advert is debated to be misleading that its "instant". You do have to leave the group for a private moment etc. You may be completely off on the person with the info, a few people have mentioned that. There are other things but you'll have to wade thru the first few pages of glowing endorsements then reviews from others. |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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I don't think this is something you would want to do alone by itself unless you know that your reading is going to be 110% accurate. However, you do not need to be right at all if you work this together into your cold readings. If you hit it, it will be shocking to say the least to your spectator, if you are totally off, it doesn't really matter since it is all part of a bigger overall reading. Cold readers should understand what I meant by my statement.
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lumberjohn Special user Memphis, TN 626 Posts
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I look at it like this. You first have to define what is meant by a concept. I can't speak for Jay, but in this context, I think of it as something like the idea that you can secretly obtain information by having someone write it down and then p***ing it. Such a concept is indeed in use by top mentalists all over the world, and isn't suspected by most laymen -- not because it is something esoteric and beyond their imagination, but because it's not something they've ever been called upon or needed to do in their ordinary experience, so it doesn't occur to them.
Of course, this "concept" (my example) is learned by every person who begins a study in the art of mentalism very soon after that study begins. Accordingly, if a mentalist were to purchase a book that simply stated this concept, without more, they would probably be very disappointed -- despite the fact that the concept does work and is used extensively in mentalism. The purchaser would probably expect specific techniques and practical uses for this concept that he or she could apply to his or her performances. My primary problems with "the Game" are that (a) the concept discussed is not new or revolutionary, was known by me before I purchased the manuscript and will most likely be known to many of you; and (b) I did not find Jay's techniques for using this concept workable, reliable, or practical. I tried them, and they didn't work for me. Nor do I believe those techniques would work for the vast majority of people likely to purchase "the Game." I addressed this with Jay, but he could offer nothing that would make "the Game" workable -- instead falling back on the defense that I had just purchased a "concept" that was not close to perfect. The "concept" Jay discusses in the Game is one that I'm sure many full time professional mentalists do use and may find effective. I suspect, however, that it works for them because they have found reliable and practical techniques to employ it, and also that they perform in different venues than most of us and have different resources at their disposal. On that point, I will say no more. So I believe the criticism comes from a position that the value of this release to potential purchasers is low, as a result of the lack of workable routines and technique, but the damage to the professional mentalism community is high, since it will result in the widespread exposure of an idea used by them but unknown to most laymen. That, of course, is just my opinion. |
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cfrye Special user Portland, Oregon, USA 940 Posts
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I believe the potential damage to the professional community is low. Most internet users know these sources exist and the vast majority of working professionals have considered using them in a Q&A or cold reading context, so there's a very small audience for whom this product represents new information.
It's interesting that the author didn't catch the irony in Banachek's "endorsement" quote, but combining the word "dangerous" with the low, low price will maximize short-term sales before The Game fades back into the obscurity of the obvious. Curt |
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lumberjohn Special user Memphis, TN 626 Posts
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Personally, I would agree with you though I suspect there are many who would rather not take that chance. I think what it comes down to is that the manuscript is either (A) not new information, (B) not usable information or (C) neither new nor usable. In any case, I can't see for whom this would be a worthwhile purchase.
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-28 01:02, Jheff wrote: I won't say where not to tip the methods - but I myself have posted here on the MC on similar effects using similar methodology with the gang here for discussion - so, not sure if that counts as published if not at least made public...  ?
It is nice when a person does compile a bunch of sources of similar techniques to become a... well, sourcebook.... but I guess this discussion is coming down to the claims of originality etc. At least the guy who wrote The Game (dating) hasn't shown up yet screaming "Hey! I used that title to use magical techniques to pick up chicks!!!"...
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-28 15:57, Greg Arce wrote: But the worm Oroborous (sp?) is eternal...
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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chr!s Regular user newcastle 163 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-29 17:32, Dr Spektor wrote: If this 'discussion' is caoming down to claims of originality, then it's unwarranted, considering Jay claims no originality of the concept, as he has outlined, but only the considerations he has of it and the routines he proposes. To be honest, I truly believe that this will not be resolved, either here, any other web forum or in personal discussion. My ultimate decision is, that I would rather take the chance of a direct hit than not. As has been said before, if a direct hit is not achieved, the remainder of your read could bring it back around. If it is achieved, you have a massive mystery on your hands. CL P.S, as it happens, for the people thinking that I have some sort of vested interest in the sale of this product, I don't. I'm in the same boat as you guy's. I'm just happy to accept I'm taking a chance when I do this, considering what I may gain.
"you can't see your own rub-a-dub..."
-richard sanders |
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Soulstar New user USA 62 Posts
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Still havent received mine, but after reading all these negative reviews I have a very bad feeling about this...
Never read the instructions!
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MagicOfT Regular user NYC 141 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-29 18:07, Soulstar wrote: don't, when you first receive The Game, read it with unbiased eyes. Do not take into account what has been posted here until after you have made your conclusion about the method. Many people find themselves hating an effect just because others do not like it, I would hate for this to be the case. |
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cfrye Special user Portland, Oregon, USA 940 Posts
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Also know that on 18 May 2001 Germany adopted the Bundesdatenschutzgesetz, which restricts the use of personal information by both the government and private individuals.
For more information, visit the official EU site at: http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/pri......#germany Curt |
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Mark Powell Special user UK 504 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-29 18:07, Soulstar wrote: You will only be able to experience a limited version of The Game, being in Europe. It's not a negative outlook, just a reinforcement of the fact that this is, primarily, for USA customers - something that is clearly stated on the advert if you bought the actual booklet. If, like me, you bought it straight from Jay then you need to scroll down and read the whole product description on Jay's website, or you'll miss this vital piece of information. It sounded great, I rushed to the website and clicked 'Buy' before reading the whole advert - my mistake. Caveat emptor... |
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Soulstar New user USA 62 Posts
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Yes, I'm aware of the fact that it has some restrictions when used in Europe (btw- I didn't bought it directly from Jay. The dealer ad didn't mention any restrictions, but I heard about them here on the Café...)
MagicOfT: I will read the booklet totally open minded as soon as I receive it and will post my thoughts about it. I'm just scared now that the method is something in the lines of "Hey go online and check them on facebook and see what you can find out" or something liket that....
Never read the instructions!
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Soulstar New user USA 62 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-29 21:29, cfrye wrote: I don't know what this has to do with the method of the game (apparently, I'm still waiting on my order ; ) BUT that doesn't sound gound either....
Never read the instructions!
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ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts
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I read this during its early manuscript stages, and have since read the finished manuscript.
Whether you like it or not, this is a usable mentalism utility. Does it work 100%? Not always, but we're dealing with mentalism here, not magic. As requested, I told Jay back then what I thought about it and made recommendations. This is a method some people will feel uncomfortable with and that's fine, not everyone has to like everything. Naturally, others will love it and live by it. Is it strong? It certainly can be. Read Banachek's quote. To avoid posting repetition, what Jay has said about this is accurate. Read his words. If you have questions, PM him. Refrain from the occasional public stoning that some Café members thrive on.
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts
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Quote:
If this 'discussion' is caoming down to claims of originality, then it's unwarranted, considering Jay claims no originality of the concept, as he has outlined, but only the considerations he has of it and the routines he proposes. To be honest, I truly believe that this will not be resolved, either here, any other web forum or in personal discussion. [/quote] Exactly! If he is just saying this is a compilation of various methods for a theme and a routine he constructed - well, Cthulhu bless him! In any case, I have to say, G**gle in the wrong hands can be very terrifying too... seriously.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Posted: Aug 29, 2008 12:18 am 
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