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phonic69 Special user 560 Posts |
Whatever tricks I learn and read about, however good they look as I learn them, it is the simplest ones that I always end up performing in my act. They require little sleight of hand, yet play big!
There are the usual suspects, red hot mama, kicker, a biddle effect etc Now, to many (small minded) magicians who set their eyes upon a list such as the one above, they will smirk with disgust at how amateur the tricks are. Yet they get the best reactions and are the most fun to perform! Why is it that it is the simplest effects are always the best?! |
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eddieloughran Special user 942 Posts |
I'm not sure I want to get involved in small minded, smirk, and disgust, but we all know that the best effects are those which are easy to follow, quick, happen in the spectators hands and make them laugh.
If a trick does not require complicated handling it may be easier to sell. But just because a trick is hard to learn or requires practice does not make it less fun, Eddie |
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MisterE21 Elite user Salt Lake City, UT 426 Posts |
Obviously, the methodology doesn't guarantee either a strong reaction or a poor reaction: I have always believed the presentation to be 90% of the key to unlocking the entertainment value of an effect...
However, if one were to review the "top 5/10/15" lists that proliferate this section of the board, I think one would notice that many of the effects are, in essence, "simple" to perform. I don't really have the experience to pontificate about why this is, but the evidence (from this board, at least) seems to indicate that simple effects are often the most effective.
Your EFFECT is only as good as its AFFECT.
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Peter Marucci Inner circle 5389 Posts |
If you check out Gene Poinc's web page on the Learned Pig site you'll see that the simplest of props can be converted into the most masterful of routines with the right presentation.
Gene took pride in using the simplest of things to accomplish the greatest awe. It's an interesting concept, though: I have heard the comment many times but never an explanation of the thinking behind it. |
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Pekka Special user Finland 560 Posts |
One problem in the magic community is that most people forget who are the target audience. I can have tons of fun with a Stripper Deck and still most magician considers that to be rubbish. However, laymen loves it. And that's the only thing that matters.
Most people here slag off David Blaine, but laymen love him. So, keep on doing your simple magic as I will keep on doing mine. And let's not smirk on each other. |
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phonic69 Special user 560 Posts |
I guess there can be a competitive element to magic as some strive to be better than the next guy... I believe Pekka hits the nail on the head - we can forget who our target audience is.
An example. I was performing at a magic dinner where most of the men were magicians and most of the women were their wives, and as I was going through my act (an act that works well with laypeople) I kept finding myself being talked down too like a child by the audience, simply because they didn't see the importance of my "simple" effects, just the difficulty. It's just a fact that many magicians today fall into the trap of performing to other magicians and not to laypeople which can cloud their judgement. That is a shame. |
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RandomEffects Veteran user Boston, MA 323 Posts |
Some of the best tricks out there are "simple". I know of no effect more powerful to the spectator than using a good top change or double lift and changing the card on the table to their select card. Color Monte still blows em away. A basic silk vanish can destroy their minds when done properly. Ash in hand can convince them that i have real magical powers.
I believe strongly in using "simple tricks" and the reason is is that i can concentrate more on the routine then on the trick. the more complex the trick the more the result seems to be on the trick and not on its reaction with the audience. I think that maybe with some magicians that as they focus more and more on this complex routine they want recognition from the audience, even though the audience does not know on method from another. As a result I think that we latently put more emphasis on the trick, kind of showing off, rather than the effect of the trick. did this make sense to anyone? Just my $0.02 Mat |
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Mark Martinez Inner circle Wisconsin 1276 Posts |
I think that part of the issue here is whom you are performing for? If you are a working magician and perform on a regular basis for laypeople you can use “simple” because it is plays strong for laypeople.
On the other hand if magic is your hobby and you perform for lots of other magicians you are forced to do effects that are not “simple” because most magicians know and are not impressed by the simple effects.
Magically,
Mark Success comes before work only in the dictionary. - Anonymous |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
I have been doing magic for many years. I have found that with all the new stuff and hype of the lastest and improved effects, I always go back to the effects that I've learn years ago. They are simple and easy to follow. Plus they do not drag on and on, like some effects.
I think that once a magician (entertainer) has reach a certain point, he or she always rely on a few simple effects that just blow people away. Just as RandomEffects stated, I know of no effect more powerful to the spectator than using a good top change or double lift and changing the card on the table to their select card. This will always be true. The lay person just wants to see magic. They don't care if you can do 105 tricks that impresses other magicians, They just want to see magic. Keeping your magic simple, direct and easily understood is the answer to entertainment. Ray |
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MagicMan1957 Inner circle 1445 Posts |
I agree... audiences don't CARE about methodology, just seeing little miracles
....also for us hobbyists .....if you don't practice complicated slights often you lose them forever... but the so called easier tricks and moves stay with us foreverrr... Hey, I recently did a T***B T*P silk disappearance and reapperance which I haven't done in yearsss ...and got tons of oohs and aahs........ I love those oohs and aahs... same goes for card warp, bill switch, twisting the aces, etc...... the oldies kill!!! |
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Andrew E. Miller Inner circle Southern California 1428 Posts |
That happens with me too. I like using simple, but extremely powerful effects from old books or that most people don't do. I can focus more on trying to make something really powerful instead of focusing on technicallity the whole time. It is realyl annoying when you have to do that.
Andrew |
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Jim Robinson Loyal user 260 Posts |
I don't think it is important whether the methodology is simple or difficult, as long as the magician can perform it without any difficulty (detection/suspicion) ; for many magicians, this rules out the difficult (for many it rules out the simple also but that's a different story).
However, the procedure part of the trick must be direct; you must not make the audience jump through too many hoops to establish the premises of a trick. However, the EFFECT must be simple and straight-forward for the audience. If when the trick is over, a layperson cannot describe what magic happened in a simple, declarative sentence, then there is a problem. There would be confusion, not magic. Therefore, the simplest to perform and most direct, simple effects are the ones that most often make a strong impact on audiences. Of course none of this applies if you are constantly performing for the easily bored audience who've seen it all before, who care not about direct effects but complex methodology - your fellow magicians.
Robinson.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious.... He to who this emotion is a stranger ... is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein |
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eddieloughran Special user 942 Posts |
Can I raise a couple of points.
If I perform for children I don't do my adults act. If I work for a mainly female audience I will do slightly different material to an all male. You agree ? Why then, if we work for magicians do we not act accordingly. Should we not try and find something that they might like to watch instead of doing something they have seen time and again. Second. Although self-working, easy tricks can be as good as anything , it does not follow that they are better than tricks which are more difficult to learn. Nor that the magician will take the trouble to present them better. Magic is my hobby, and I want to be as good at my hobby as I can. That does not mean that I perform the most difficult, complicated magic I can,I don't but it does mean that I don't pass on a trick just because it requires work. And, in spite of what I said above, I'v found that a lot of magicians are not interested in anybody elses work but their own. I'll go futher - a lot of magicians are lot very interested in magic. Eddie |
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DJP Veteran user London 391 Posts |
I totally agree with Random Effects and Eddie Loughran, the simpler the basic premise of the effect that the spectator can remember, the better the effect.
IMO Gambling routines can lose this as they can get extremely complicated for the audience to follow and to make all this entertaining is a difficult job. Practice the presentation of an effect and you have a miracle... IMO, when i was performing a visual card effect, i got a great reaction due to the language i used in the effect: i used the idea of a printing press and heat to reinforce the idea that cards are printed in this way...to me the audience (if switched on) should convey the exact same process in their head, visually picture what you are saying and thus making an overall transposition greater. Just my 2pence Davé
David
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ROBERT BLAKE Inner circle 1472 Posts |
you have "simple" effects and simple "effects". most magicians (I was one of them) think that a simple effect is an effect with no sleight of hand.
now I think there are 2 ways of "simple". #1= simple in effect - card changes color #2= simple in methology - no sleight of hand but it is also possible to an effect wich is simple in effect but not simple in methology - example = ambitious card is simple in effect but can be very difficult in methology. depending on the moves you use. |
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MisterE21 Elite user Salt Lake City, UT 426 Posts |
I completely agree; the method is much less important than the effect itself. I'm not really concerned with how many hoops I, as the performer, have to jump through to make the miracle happen; I just want to keep the spectators hoops to a minimum.
Can't really comment on performing for other magicians, as it's not something I conciously do. What I mean is, if I perform for a magician it simply a matter of chance, not design.
Your EFFECT is only as good as its AFFECT.
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natswift Regular user Colorado 177 Posts |
It all comes back to our own definition of "simple" magic. My classic palm used to look like I had a severe case of arthritis and I hated doing it in front of anyone except my mirror. Now my classic palm is more than adequate. I guess you could say it's simple.
I believe that you should not perform an effect for a paying audience until you think that the effect is "simple". After all the lay audience will always think your using sleight of hand even if you cheat witha Svengali deck. The method after all doesn't really matter to the audience. Great posts everyone I enjoy reading them every day! P.S. One of my favorite effects for a lay audience is Cardtoon! Which by most standards is a "simple" effect. |
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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
The reason is because the tricks are easy to follow from the audience's point of view. The effects are very clear. If you have a difficult effect (mechanically) but a very clear way of presenting what the audience should be following and thinking, you'll have blockbuster results.
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Michael Bilkis Special user 728 Posts |
I think that it comes down to effect and presentation over methodology. In my parlor show I do some great effects which require much preparation, e.g. cardiographic and torn and restored newspaper. I also do needle through the balloon. Time and time again people come up to me after a show amazed about the needle through the balloon routine.
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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
When it comes right down to it, if the audience reacts well, then the effect, regardless of the difficulty (or lack thereof), is successful and (dare I say it?) commercial.
Whether the trick uses a simple gaff, a cold deck, a TT or 7 perfect faro shuffles combined with a half-over-double-flinngy-do hop and leanr into a scrmicz display in both hands, if the audience gasps and is impressed (and if they laugh when they are supposed to AT what they are supposed to laugh at!), then you have done magic. This is like the old nature vs nurture argument in developmental psychology. Is environment or heredity more important? The answer decided upon by that profession is they are both 100% important and necessary. I believe that the same holds true in magic, but it's between difficulty of execution and ease, not between genetics and environment. Just my 2 cent's worth. Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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