Say theres a video of a trick/effect posted online and you decide to purchase it based on what was shown in the video. Now say you get it and look over the instructions and the gimmick only to discover that it is IMPOSSIBLE to perform it the way it was demonstrated in the video. Would you consider that standard magic effect sales (as in most tricks are embelleshed either in text descriptions or in videos with edits/angles) or would you consider that false advertisement (as in the illegal sense)?

Also, if it were my opinion that it was false advertisement and I were to expose him or her and the trick itself and the video for all its flaws, would I be considered the ****** Bag in this situation?

Josh

I wouldn't expose the method of the trick beyond saying : "it can't be performed the way it was shown in the advertisement video demo."

The Café has a section for reviews. I'd post a review of the effect , name the names , and say how disappointed you are that the video demo gave a false impression of how the trick could be performed , but when you received the trick it was obvious that it would be impossible to perform it as shown in the demo.

Actually, my first action would be to contact the person who sold the trick and see if they would refund the money , based on the fact that their demo video was not an accurate representation of how the trick would actually look . If they refuse , then I'd go on the offensive and post the negative review on the Café and other sites to warn others.

Thanks for the reply. I just want to clarify something. The video wasn't just a little misleading. There is absolutely no way that the prop/gimmick/item sent to me was what was used in the video. The video and a couple other variations are posted on youtube. One of the users reveals how it's done (and had it not been for certain things I saw in the video I could have probably figured it out as well), but when I read it I thought there was no way that's what the method was because of key elements in the video. Well, it turns out they were right.

It would be like if someone showed you a silk vanish. Then you are all like "you just used a TT". And they are all like "no I didn't. Give me $30 and I'll teach you how I did it". So you give them the $30 and it turns out they used a TT. Wouldn't you be just a little more than disapointed and want to leave more than just a negative review?

By the way, I have tried to contact the person and they don't seem to be answering me. Maybe they are on vacation or maybe they are avoiding me. Maybe I only think they are avoiding me because I have no patience or maybe getting scammed has something to do with it.

Josh

Giving us the name of the trick you are referring to would be appreciated.

Or perhaps a review in the review section with a link to it here?

Well the trick is Pen Thru Arm by Jesse Feinberg. I pretty much only registered on this forum to complain about it but it looks like others have beat me to it (the search function isn't avaiable to unregistered users so for me to have found these posts before I would have had to go thru thousands and thousands of posts).





I guess my problem now is that after reading these posts, people have been MUCH too lenient on him. I keep seeing words like "poor quality" to describe the props and "misleading" to describe the videos. Well the pen is pure crap and the video is downright FRAUD! I sure hope the reason he isn't answering me is because he is in prison for FRAUD but then that means I won't be getting my $30 back (because the actual dealer I bought it from isn't answering my e-mails either). Cheers to getting screwed six ways to Sunday by the magic community (now I won't feel so bad posting a video revealing it on youtube).

Josh

Deceptive advertizing is a long-standing curse in magic.
How many times have you seen an illustration that gives an inaccurate depiction of an effect, a description that implies something that the effect DOESN'T do, or misapplied claims like:

Close-up and Surrounded!
Carry and Perform Anytime; no setup needed!
Can be inspected!

So what you're saying is that it's OK? That people in the business of selling magic supplies/effects shouldn't be held by the same regulations as everyone else set by the FTC ( http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus35.shtm )? Fraud isn't fraud if the person owns a TT? Then what is the purpose of this section of the forums, to rat out someone who uses the French Drop in their act when you've been doing it for years?

So then if the description is always so much better than anything anyone can do in person, why don't we just walk around with our catalogue of tricks, point a trick to a spectator and ask them to read it and when they are done say "doesn't that sound amazing? Wouldn't it be so cool if I could perform something that even closly resembles that?".

Even better yet, now that portable DVD players are so cheap, just film yourself doing the trick for the camera with no one around (don't have to worry about angles or handing out the object for inspection) dress up the video with a bunch of special effects and cuts (so they don't see you ditching the gimmick or whatever) and play it for your "audience".

So yeah, if people aren't going to be held accountable for impractical effects and crappy gimmicks, then I have a new trick I'm selling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv2iizHDzJI

No, at least in my opinion its not "okay' but it IS a hazard of the industry.

Things I would do about the current situation:

(1) Post a review

(2) Write a letter both to the maker and to the shop that sold it to you. I'd make them two different letters because the issues are different. In the one case you want to tell them (as nicely as possible, more flies with honey and all) that the illusion is not what the demo video led you to believe it to be and you would like a refund. To the shop I'd say the same thing but point out that they should reconsider how they advertise it if not their carrying of it altogether.

(3) If you feel the video was outright false advertising and you REALLY want to make noise. Write your state attorney general. Be prepared to have to explain why the advertising was false to a complete layman in this case.

(4) Take a lesson learned. I've been stung too... but once I found these forums that stopped. I read the reviews here carefully now before I invest in any illusion. Outright false advertising might not be "right" but unfortunately as others have pointed out it is somewhat endemic to our industry. Its not always purposefully deceptive... sometimes a vendor is just a bit too excited by their own brilliance and doesn't bother to really field test the idea before putting it on the market.

(5) Don't pay a lot of attention to demo videos. Sad to say the current state of them is awful. Many of them are being produced as slick advertisements and are not real demos at all. I suggested the start of a code for this sort of thing in another thread but no one seemed very interested in discussing it.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=177&3

I see what you're saying and agree with your code completely. Maybe you aren't getting a better response because most people on here want to market their own effect with a video and they can't do it (and make it look decent) if they follow your code. I also read your "The Medium is not the Message" thread and saw the response to that so far. It's like the entire magic community can't tell the difference between (using Criss Angel as an example) filming an impossible effect on a set with paid actors (I'm sure he is very talented and can pull off many tricks in a plausible situation in front of real spectators but I know of at least a couple of situations (considering I haven't watched much of his show, that's a high ratio) where a set and actors were used) to make his television show more entertaining to the average viewer and doing the same thing to sell a fellow magician something that will end up being nothing more than a $50 paper weight.

Anyway, the shop that sold it to me e-mailed me today saying I can return it for store credit. I guess it's a step in the right direction, but it doesn't stop Jesse from selling his crap elsewhere. There still needs to be more accountability.

Josh

Well congrats on getting your money back.

Your probably already doing the best thing you can for the community-- which is engage in word of mouth. I always check the reviews sections here on an item I'm interested in. That would be a great place for you to post something that could have lasting impact.

Gotta be honest though.... you just touched on the third thing that ****es me off in today's magicians. There *was* a code of TV magic that you could not use any effect on TV that you could not so off TV. If we allow ourselves to use TV effects why should anyone bother to watch us at all? Computer animators today can make MUCH more amazing things happen on the TV screen then we can.

So while I'm not wild about the sue of stooges... that I consider somewhat legit. but if Angel was using a TV set to make viewers believe he was somewhere he wasn't.. that's over the line in my book.

(Not that he's the first. The whole Copperfield grand canyon levitation thing only worked cause your field of vision was limited by the frame of the camera. That was the night I stopped liking Copperfield.)

See the following thread for a long discussion on the topic of misleading video demos.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......=177&180

John

Thanks for the input and the link, jonnyboy. The thing is, is that I'm not talking about MISLEADING video demos. I'm talking about flat out demo FRAUD like in Jesse's video for Pen Thru Arm. To be honest, I didn't have time (or the attention span) to look over every post in the link you provided, but I found a quote that is more along the lines of what I'm getting at:



That's a little closer to what I mean. In the case of PTA its not a matter of getting them to turn around to make something "appear", it's more of the fact that there is absolutely no way you can make it look like Jesse does in his video with the supplied pen. IMPOSSIBLE! I guess using the idea from the quote though, you could show a regular pen, tell the audience to turn around, switch it for a pen that has been cut in half, hold it against your arm, tell them to turn around again, show them for a few seconds, tell them to turn around again, switch the pen again, tell them to turn around again, show them the regular pen and that your arm is intact and say "TA-DA!".

There are a couple different versions of video demos of PTA. If you were to look at one, you could probably figure it out. When I looked at the version on Jesse's website (along with a still image directly beside it) I assumed that it couldn't have been accomplished the way I thought because of these key elements and that's exactly the reason I even bought it in the first place.

Josh

Most of you (like 99.9999%) are going to hate me for this but the way I see it, I'm not exposing magic, I am exposing FRAUD! I've pointed out step by step the dicrepancies between the video demo and real life performance directly to Mr. Jesse Feinberg and he still fails to acknowledge that anything is wrong. I don't know if this will get me banned from here or not but this is a chance I have to take. If I can prevent at least 1 sale of any of his products, I would consider this a success.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eNW-AEZ0XE

Josh

Good for you.

I second a good for you, Fake Josh. I hope you don't get banned for telling the truth!.

Wow, I really wasn't expecting any support for doing this, but thank you. Seriously. Thank you very much.

It takes a lot of guts to do what you did. There is to much c**p out there and to few people to say so.

However, the problem is solved very simply.

Stop buying "New stuff".

Come up with your own ideas, or use the classics. There is more than enough untapped stuff in books to keep people occupied with "New stuff" forever.