On 2008-09-27 15:33, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
Sorry if I came across that way, I had no intent on slinging anything, mud or any other dark substance. My intent was quite the opposite.

Tony

On 2008-09-28 08:48, ALEXANDRE wrote:

You've also never seen Fritzner Paul with a ball and vase.

On 2008-09-28 05:44, ThomasBerger wrote:
Just in response to something Tony said about the tricks being immaterial....
I would respond and claim that that is one of the great myths of magic.

I heard this in magic clubs when I was a kid, it was the rage in
the 60's and 70's , taking slum magic and creating a magician fooler.
(Mike Skinner even publishing a magician fooler ball and vase effect in Genii in the 60's)

My claim is that this is a myth largely confined to magic clubs.

If that were true, Uri would be doing the ball and vase or folding paper bunnies,
and many of the pro's wouldn't be doing the same effects.

Presentation is important-
BUT so is choice of material.
BOTH are vital.

Yes, a pro can do "slum magic" and make it entertaining.
But it is unlikely you will make your living from doing crap effects.

Likewise, you can perform a strong effect with little/no presentation,
and still make a strong impression.

BUT you need both presentation and the strongest effect
possible to survive long term in in the real world.

Vernon said the same thing--use your head,
think very carefully about choosing an effect.
Choose the strongest effects.

And while anecdotes are interesting, they are not evidence.
So lets set some benchmarks.

I am assuming we are talking about performing:

1-for money (possibly substantial $)
2-for laypeople (conferences colleges and other venues where professionals are booked)
3-pro or semi pro where you NEED repeat work.

In this world, you need repeat work from laypeople.
Bottom line.

Marketing guru Seth Godin says good is not enough in this world,
not even very good.

You need to be "remarkable"-- you need people to remark about your act,
to be talked about.

And it needs to be remarkable to laypeople.
Not magicians, clubs, friends and family.
They won't get you bookings.

So here is the question--
Looking at the top 10-20 percent of performers,
Who is doing weak material because he is a brilliantly entertaining performer?
Who is doing crap filler?

I don't know anyone, but I could be wrong.

Conversely, I see most pro's doing the same/similar effects,
because they are powerful and are talked about by laypeople.
Look at the acts of Karges, Salem, Kurtz, Conover, Carter ....
look at the overlap of effects.

The truth of the matter is, a large percentage of effects that are published,
probably even most, are crap.

Professional performer Nimrod Harel says the same thing in Shalosh-
"It's a badly kept secret of the trade that many of the mentalism
products on the market today would be far better served as kindling than for a professional show."

I don't know any professional performer who would not pick the absolute strongest material possible for a performance because his living depends on it.

You can entertain people with a hanky folded as a mouse, but you wouldnt have a chance if you in the same room as Fred Kaps performing his dancing cork.

Value is determined by comparison.

Cheers.
Tom