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leftytheclown
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I guess you could discuss the difference between a trick and an effect. Any trick that cannot be transformed into an effect is merely a puzzle. The general rule is that kids like puzzles, adults don't. I personally think the "Broom" levitation is a horrible trick. It doesn't look magical at all and I've seen it lots of times.
Also, I've never liked stage illusions using boxes, trunks, cages etc. However, if the "paying" audience likes that, who am I to say it is a bad trick.

Finally, as Henry Hay noted, "It's not the tricks, it's the presentation."
Lefty (aka) Sterling Dare
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Josh Riel
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Quote:
On 2006-04-07 14:10, cinemagician wrote:
A dozen unrepentant offerings-

1.) The Web- what magical effect is taking place here? Is anyone really going to suppose that the printed spider transformed into the "unrealistic plastic one". Some say it get's great reactions- any reactions it may get have nothing to do with a "magical occurance".

Never seen it, but my magician friends swear by it

Quote:
2.) Sponge Rabbits or for that matter in most cases sponge balls. Why not perform a similar routine with any small natural objects like paper napkins. To me it say's, "I bought these at the magic shop, or worse yet- left overs from clown college.

Have used them countless times and I watched as others did the effect. I found it past perfection. I don't use it now, only because I used it as a crutch too often, and it kept me from performing other classics.

Quote:
3.) Change Bag- please throw it out. Anyone who needs such a suspicious looking bag just to make a silk change color or change into an egg, deserves no place in magic.

Disagree only because I have seen it, and like it

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4.) Any three shell routine which uses plastic or gold shells. WHat's wrong with real walnut shells?

Don't know where to start. I have the S4S Street shells, and love them, as has anyone who has seen them.

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5.) Invisible Deck- not the effect- but the embarasing, unfunny hackneyed practice of making the volunteer go through all of the "stupid "invisible shuffling".that STOP already- it's not funny.

Never used it, but have seen "the "stupid "invisible shuffling". and it has been well received

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6.) Doves to Rabbit, please, please do something else.

Don't have an opinion

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7.) Almost any trick with "paddles" as they look like nothing on God's Green Earth.

Disagree entirely, when done well is fantabulous

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8.) Silk in TT, fine as a utility or as part of a routine, but can't stand alone as an illusion.

See #2. My wife insists I bring them back as she believes they are the closest thing to "Real Magic" I have. I do a mean C&B routine by the way.

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9.) Most Zombie Routines- you know, those lasting over 5 minutes, usually accompanied by a loud over the top orchestral score.


I have never liked the zombie

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10.) Any packet effect where there are so many changes and counts that no one can even follow what is going on.

Never seen an effect as described

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11.) Almost any packet effect which uses any cards except normal playing cards.


Tarot cards? ESP Cards?
Quote:

12.) Feather Flowers, Spring Flowers, or any flower that is not real or at least looks undetectibly real. Flowers are generally regarded as one of the most beautiful things in nature. It's such bad taste to use anything but.


McBride seems to like them, as do other well known names, although they may be mediocre magicians.....

Everyone has different tastes, thank god.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
karbonkid
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I think this is all about performances. The effects aren't tired, performances, and lazy magicians make them tired. The effects are tried and true, if anything. And, I see a lot of people bashing slum magic, well, if you took a second to think outside the box and apply principles of your craft to these things, they can be just as powerful as anything you've paid twice or ten times as much for. Some good references, if you are interested...

Mike Gallo does an INSPIRING routine with a crappy ball and vase that will blow you away. It did me, and, I believe that was derived or inspired by 'Arcade Dreams' by Ed Marlo. That book is great and will have you running around to spend the $2 to make the effects work.
Chessmann
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Quote:
On 2003-04-11 21:00, Dave Egleston wrote:
Carter writes:
"Maybe we can convince Ammar to do a zombie video."

Aren't they all?

Dave


No, but that post ws pretty classless.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
kamus
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I thought it was kinda funny. I respect Ammar and have learned a lot from his books and tapes, but boy he puts me to sleep in a hurry unless unless I'm wearing a hair shirt and I've drunk 3 cups of coffe and couple of Red Bulls. So I can relate to the "Zombie" comment. In my case, it's me who becomes the Zombie, not Ammar! Although I do think of him as some sort of benign magic automaton. Smile He's a very nice guy and has written to me with useful advice so I'm not putting him down at all but it doesn't mean we can't poke a little fun at him now and again- he seems pretty self deprecating and would probably take such comments with good humor.. I'm sure many people would rise up and defend him if someone seriously attacked him- in fact, I would be one of those guys!
il illegetimi est non carborundum

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Chessmann
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I hear you, Kamus. It just occurred to me that the entirety of the man's prodigous video/dvd work was being wrapped up in that statement, and on a public forum.

Also, I would not agree that he is boring - but we all have our different "settings".
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
DerZauberer
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I really dislike the Raven. I see a lot of beginner magicians on “another” forum ask "How does this work?" "Should I get it?" "This is so cool - I need it to be a great magician" They are convinced that they must have this in their repertoire to be validated as a magician.

This is my view: the Raven verses the old favorites - French Drop or False Transfer (Which would you pick. Impromptu? or Gimmick and tedious set-up?)
George Ledo
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Someone mentioned tricks with paddles, and I'm guessing he or she meant the little paddles with an image on one side and a blank flip side.

I agree that these don't look like anything else on earth... except that sometimes restaurants put similar paddles on your steak to show how they're done. I had a lot of fun with one of these a long time ago: one side read "Well" and the other side was blank. Even though I never did close-up, this was a quick little thing I could do anytime, and people could relate to what the paddle was.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
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Jonathan Townsend
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Fool your friends.
Be the hit the next magic get-together.
Impress women/men/houseplants
It's the latest
It's revolutionary
It's an instant classic

It's fooling you, and insisting you fool yourself about it later.

Good trick, effective and also one of the worst things one can buy into as a magician.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
JackScratch
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Have I mentioned recently how muich I dispise the "what is the best effect../what is the worst effect.." threads. It is a symptom of a magic community with completely misplaced values. The magic community need to concern itself a great deal less with the value of particular effects, and a great deal more with every part of their performance that isn't the effects.
Lee Darrow
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Quote:
On 2003-04-09 12:17, Peter Marucci wrote:
Jongallagher writes: "I'm also a firm believer in the old adage "there's no such thing as a bad audience." I mean, do you suppose that 100 people all got together and said, "Let's be a bad audience tonight!?"

:rotf: That's got to be about the funniest thing I've read here in ages! Very good!


Sorry, Peter, but it DOES happen.

Shift to Medieval Times Dinner & Tournament, on a June Evening in 1994. The event is a sellout for a high school music competetion awards banquet. 1,200 high school kids, packed into the Schaumburg, IL castle, waiting to go in and cheer on the knights on horseback, eat chicken without having to use silverware and watch a falcon fly over their heads.

I am doing magic in the mob at a 15' round table in the main hall. As I pull out a DeKraam/Leslie Deck, the kids in the front row start CALLING OFF the names of the cards because they had gone to a certain mall magic chain and bought ONE deck there with the STATED purpose of "dissing the magic guys at school and at the Castle tonight!" to the salesman's FACE! There were some fifty kids "in" on the gag, too. Not just one or two, so I would say that this qualifies as an audience deciding to be a "bad audience" before walking in to a show.

And that was not ALL they bought, either, with the same stated intent. Add in a C/S/B set, a cig thru quarter, stripper deck, Devano deck an ID an ITR and a set of D'Lites just for good measure. Fortunately, I wasn't performing any of those that evening!

Fortunately, I was able to do several things that did not require the obvious gaff and still blew their little minds, but it was NOT a fun, warm and fuzzy moment.

Respectfully,

Lee Darrow, C.H.
P.S. - for the authenticity types who will start in onme for doing card tricks at a Medieval themed place, Medieval Times is a FANTASY restaurant - they are more than a bit loose with their time period issues and playing cards are perfectly okay, especially considering that they sell plastic giveaway mugs. - LD
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
JackScratch
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Lee, they can go through me and Bill to get to you. I perform at the largest Rennaisance Festival in the US, and I do an awful lot of card effects. Bill performed at TRF for 25 years, if memory serves, and I personaly saw him do card effects, Good ones to. There is no place for button counters in the historical themepark business.
Joe Russell
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SNAPPER....really now what the hell
Who is Tattoo Joe?
Whit Haydn
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Quote:
On 2006-04-07 14:10, cinemagician wrote:
4.) Any three shell routine which uses plastic or gold shells. WHat's wrong with real walnut shells?


Have you ever done the shells, cinemagician?

There are a lot of things wrong with real walnut shells.

I have been performing the shell game for more than forty-five years, and have used my own hand-made walnut shells, wooden "dinks," bottle caps, plastic shells, metal shells, brass caps, match boxes, and many other things.

Real walnut shells, when puttied and painted, are the most suspicious looking things to lay audiences. They invariably want to examine them, and they question why the putty and paint is there...are there magnets?

Even when the shells are puttied and painted, they crack, chip and fall apart after use, or when carried on an airplane, or when moved from one humidity to another.

On the other hand, no one questions the plastic shells, the matchboxes, or metal shells.

This is magician's thinking.

Metal and plastic shells are much more practical, more effective, and more convincing than real walnut shells.

I would only use real walnut shells for historically accurate re-enactments, and even then, I prefer to use the solid-silver Colorado Shells.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2006-06-01 23:56, JackScratch wrote:
Lee, they can go through me and Bill to get to you. I perform at the largest Rennaisance Festival in the US, and I do an awful lot of card effects. Bill performed at TRF for 25 years, if memory serves, and I personaly saw him do card effects, Good ones to. There is no place for button counters in the historical themepark business.


Agreed, it's strictly a personal preference issue since virtually every trick you will be performing with said cards will be historically inaccurate as well. We're performing for modern audiences so certain concessions must be made. Personally I would never perform with modern cards as I find there look too jarring and they ruin the aesthetic of the act.

As for the worst trick in common use today. My vote goes for the Pom-Pon Pole. Not that it's a bad feat, though I've never seen a good presentation for it. I just don't happen to care for it.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Josh the Superfluous
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Re: fake shells

In my patter I mention that artificial shells are used by the scam artists because they are identical.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2
CasualSoul
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For the most part, this is a completely subjective topic. Although I personally find many of the classics gimmicky and tired looking, I've seen them used very effectively by others. It all comes down to personal presentation style and venue. Doing magic in a night club with silks might get you beat up, but at a kids party or even during some public event like a festival they can be very effective.

If we want to have a constructive discussion about best or worst trick, we need to start be establishing the context in which the trick would be used and the criteria a trick must meet to be considered good or bad within the specified context.
"Open their mind by performing the impossible"
Josh the Superfluous
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CasualSoul,

You make too much sense! Just pick an effect that wouldn't work for your situation or one that you've seen performed by a hack, and trash it.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2
Whit Haydn
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Quote:
On 2006-06-05 08:54, Josh the Superfluous wrote:
CasualSoul,

You make too much sense! Just pick an effect that wouldn't work for your situation or one that you've seen performed by a hack, and trash it.


LOL
kregg
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I learned that the only way to avoid seeing another spirit slate marathon is to avoid magic conventions.
POOF!
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