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tanselkaya Regular user 139 Posts 
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Hi Bill,
Thank you for your comments. What I mean is that the magician should not appear worried about the spectators inspecting any props neither should he prevent them. The props should appear very natural to the audience. For example in the Kolossal Killer routine Kenton Knepper suggests the following handling. The magician throws his wallet on the table and says "I'll bet you all my money, unfortunately there's not much there". The fact that the wallet is a very personal object (maybe you have condoms in there, who knows) combined with the magicians challenge prevents the spectators from examining the wallet. For them the wallet has been examined and it passed the test. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24287 Posts
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I'll agree with that completely. Implied examinability is fine, but actually letting the spectators examine props is basically not done, except in a very limited range of circumstances, such as when doing a blindfold routine. If you don't let them at least attempt to look through the blindfold, it makes no sense.
Another type of implied examinability is the kind where you place an item into a spectator's hand and tell him not to drop it. This is bold, but eliminates problems later. However, examination of stage props at the spectator's whim violates the principle of the sanctity of the stage. This is lost on some modern performers, because they were not raised in an environment in which the stage was the performer's turf.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Magic Arty Elite user metro Atlanta 443 Posts
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Cinemagician, did yo ever get a set of "The web"? I was sceptical when it first came out, then I started doing it. There is some good magic happening throughout, the involvement with the spectator is key. choose your person right and you will have an effect they will never forget!
Arthur |
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cinemagician Inner circle Phila Metro Area 1094 Posts
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I'm sorry I did not mean to malign The Web or Jim Pace, I think he sells some excellent products.
What I was getting at (I think) is that the reaction the spectators get from the appearance of the spider does not really have anything to do with a magical effect taking place. It is a reaction to a surprise. Again- I don't do the effect, so I am sorry I brought it up. Many things magicians do in the course of their act are not "magic effects" per se- you can perform a stunt, an escape, a florish, use a sight gag or visual comedy prop etc. I am not a "magic snob" I believe that the entertainment of the audience is of most importance. But I think that we as magicians are unique in that our form of entertainment has to do with creating the mental impression of a seemingly impossible act. Not shock and surprise for it's own sake. I feel badly for using The Web as an example and in fairness to Jim Pace and to all that perform it (I've gotten some PM's) I'm really going to try it myself- I promise I'll report back on my findings- Respectfully- Mark
...The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity...
William Butler Yeats |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24287 Posts
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I didn't mention this one, but I will, because it is so common. I think the mouth coil is one of the worst tricks in general use. This thing dates back at least to the middle of the 19th century, and in a slightly different form, back to Scot.
Why do people feel that it is entertaining to pull colored paper from their mouths? A lot of people do this for kid shows. Generally, it starts with taking some tissue paper, tearing it into pieces, stuffing it into the oral orifice, and then extracting streams of paper from same. Kids imitate this kind of behavior. GAG!!! BARRRRRFFFFF!!! The least flattering photo I have ever seen of a young female magician appeared in the Linking Ring. It showed her extracting a mouth coil from her face. BLEAAAHHHH!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Marvello Inner circle It's amazing how little I can say in 1611 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-07-08 03:13, Bill Palmer wrote: What's worse is I have seen acts where magicians invite a kid up to the stage to do a "torn & restored tissue" effect, and have the kid follow along with them, including placing the tissue in their mouth. Aside from the inappropriateness of having a kid shove a wad of tissue paper in their mouth, the kid is left with a mouth full of wet paper while the magi is pulling this beautiful paper streamer out of their mouth, so it basically turns in to a "I'm so magical and you are not" moment. Then they give the streamer to the kid - yuck! I have done mouth coils in the past, not so much anymore, but whenever I did I never used it in my mouth - it came out of my fist, and I had the kid pull the streamer out themselves, so they are involved in the magic. I hate effects where the spectator messes up the trick, while the magi doesn't- I prefer it to be the other way around.
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24287 Posts
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Fist coils are okay.
My idea of the worst possible kid show act starts off with a dove pan (fire), then fire eating, the needle trick (with the thread), the needle through the arm, and ends with a mouth coil.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 6018 Posts
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Bill, How about a sword stabbing in the stomack, followed by a blank gun shooting at a heckler with a smark alect remark, a nail thru the hand predition, the eating of a light buld and the nail through the nose. End it with a bunny creamation.
:)
Dennis Michael
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24287 Posts
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Aw, man. Why did you have to let everyone know what my act was?
:devilish:
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-07-08 06:08, Marvello wrote: Yeah give it to the kid and don't forget to wrap it around their neck as a souvenir! I'm sure the mother will be delighted. Yeah, a multi-colored paper necklace from the magician's mouth. The mouth he used to smoke a cigarette on the way to the show, drink several cups of coffee, and eat foods heavy in garlic, and...well you get the idea. I remember Peter Maurucci used to get real hot-headed about mouth coils and how sickening they are. I'd like to see the combination of a a 50ft. mouth coil production and a Whoopi cushion. Hey if the magician has something coming out of his mouth, let's step this thing up a bit (kick it up a notch!) and do it for what it's worth. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27219 Posts
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With the prevalence of eating disorders... I find the basic imagery outside the "comfort zone" for presentation.
Unless that is your intention of course.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Seance Elite user Talking on the other side with 413 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-07-08 14:40, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Yeah ...Show how some suffer from magican's bulimia!! 
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24287 Posts
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I suffer from anorexia ponderosa.
I used to think I was a bulimic amnesiac. I would binge but I would forget to purge. ba DUM Bum.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-06-02 13:43, Payne wrote: I might be reviving a very old thread here, but as I see it there have already been several revivals since 2003 when it started so here goes: I have actually finally seen a wonderful presentation of the Pom Pom Pole. Before that I would have agreed with you that it is just a bad trick without a good presentation, but Hank Moorehouse at a lecture in Buffalo proved me wrong. It is written up in the lecture notes from this tour as the "Do Nothing Machine." The presentation is basically a rambling of the amount of "nothing" that he does with his "do nothing machine." It is comical and entertaining from beginning to end. It has seriously made me consider purchasing one to use with this presentation as a filler effect for my show. |
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evolve629 Inner circle A stack of 3838 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-06-24 21:48, wrote: I have an engineer friend once said to me "the more you know about engineering, the more you’ll know about magic." I was upset about this statement for awhile. This person further said to me that "without science and engineering, it would be impossible to do magic." So to bring in the "evidence" we talked about Disappearing Milk, Piercing a Balloon, Floating Dollar, Milk Pitcher trick, and Egg In a Bottle. In fact, the above effects are frequently used by science professionals to generalize their point of science and magic. Personally I think it's dreadful... I am thankful of tanselkaya for saying what he said above.
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators hands...it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler |
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ChristopherM Special user UK 844 Posts
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I was baffled the first time I saw a Troublewit performed by a magician. I don't mean fooled, I mean I couldn't work out why he was performing it. It's not at all magical - literally nothing magical about it; it simply doesn't belong in a magician's repertoire. Still appalled to see it in so many people's acts.
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
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On 2007-01-21 11:24, evolve629 wrote: All of what he said is true, but completely misses the point of magic. Yes, science and logic are necessary to create magic, but they are only a part of the formula, the less important part at that. Psychology is also extremely important in the creation of magic, but you realy can't create magic without dreams and inspiration. Magic is an art, not a science. |
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vincentmusician Loyal user Toronto 228 Posts
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This is very subjective. One trick can be garbage in one person's hands and gold in another's. I personally would not perform the pom pom poles. However, I have seen boring and great performances of it. Another trick that rely's on a good presentation is the Rings. I perform these. At first I never performed them for years since they have been exposed and I thought everyone knows how this is done so it is pointless. Then I saw a performance and decided to seriously study the rings and developed a routine. I gave it a go and at a performance for about 120 adults, it got the most applause over everything else I did. So go figure. I realized that it is the performance that matters. Yes. There are some magic effects better than others. However, If you come up with a good routine and you are having success with it in your shows, then for me, it is a winner. If you try out a routine and it falls flat after a few tries, then I drop it from my repertoire. Basically it is what ever works for you. Cheers!
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Posted: Jun 25, 2006 02:48 pm 
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