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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
LOL
B
Visit My Facebook Fan Page At
www.Facebook.com/BlairMarshallMontrealMagician www.BlairMarshall.ca www.ShaZzamShow.com www.MontrealMagicien.com |
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stempleton Inner circle 1443 Posts |
Checked with a corporate attorney (great to have one of those in the family,) and these kinds of things aren't any more enforceable than, say, a newspaper taking you to court for allowing someone else to read that edition without their putting 50 cents in a machine themselves. Yes, you could not, as many have said, reproduce without permission (which NONE of us ever do, right--how many DILBERT comics do you see on the office bulletin board?). In the print groups, it's called pass-along readers. What governs us as a society is our moral code. Are we ethical, legal and moral?
Now for ebooks, that's something else, thanks to the digital management laws going around. And that STILL has yet to be shaken out. But a tangeable piece of equipment...don't sweat the small stuff. |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
Quote:
Steve Templeton, Christian Performer says: ...these kinds of things aren't any more enforceable than, say, a newspaper taking you to court for allowing someone else to read that edition without their putting 50 cents in a machine themselves." So, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that it is legally, ethically and morally OK to steal or pass-along something that is NOT legally, ethically or morally yours??? WOW! Just because it’s hard to “enforce” the law doesn’t make it LEGAL, Ethical or Moral to deliberately act outside of the bounds of the law does it? Just asking... one Christian Brother to another. When did doing what's right become an "option"? I am at your servie and In HIS Service, Deano (not perfect, but trying) in Reno <><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
Garage sales are ethically wrong then?
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
COOL...Good question!
I guess it depends on what each agreed to as the terms of the sale. HERE is what is required: (Legally, Ethically & Morally) DO WHAY YOU SAY and COMMIT TO! YES, act in accordance and agreement what ever “Agreements/Terms/Applications/Spirit” and/or understandings are made at/or prior to the time of the entered-into agreement/understanding and the TERMS of the agreement… period. How hard is this to GET? What ever happened to “Just Do What’s RIGHT?” To suggest that it is “OK” or that it’s “no-big-deal” to “pass-along” licensed and legally protected materials is ludicrous, especially for a professional no matter how big or small. Stealing is stealing… if it’s a paperclip, a pen a .50 cent paper and it’s NOT YOURS, it’s still stealing! HOW did this become ‘acceptable’, especially among Christians? Now I do ‘understand’ that the enforcement of said laws is only as good as our willingness and ability to enforce said laws??? “Ability/Willingness to enforce the law” does in no-way make it any less legal to act outside of the binds of a legally entered into agreement does it. Just because you can “get away with it” is not grounds of behaving illegally. If one has no morals or ethics then sure, it’s ok to steal, but that doesn’t make it “right” or “Legal”, does it? Right is right and Wrong Is wrong. YES, (as Tom, Blair and others have said) it is common sense (and the law) that agreements should be made/forged and agreed upon prior to the entered into agreement to be “legal”, (Otherwise it’s called Bait & Switch and THAT is illegal as well!) but if everything is offered up-front, simply DO what you agreed to do! Plane and simple, like it or not. There is zero moral, ethical, legal ambiguity here, there is just what is right and what is NOT! WHY do so many go so far out of our way to “try and get out of what is right” instead of just DOING what is right when we know it is our responsibility! (No matter who is there to enforce it!) IF we do what-ever illegal thing we WANT to hoping we can just “get away with it” is that RIGHT? Enforced or not, it is still WRONG to do the wrong and/or illegal thing! There is no grey area, just DO WHAT YOU AGREED TO! How hard is that to get? ALL of my sites and products are outline clearly and up-front with an “Honesty Policy” and “Signed License Application” prior to the sale. (With the accepting of some “friends” and to whom I personally gifted products to… there I just get to TRUST I guess.) Everything is fully disclosed on my sites and nothing is left to chance or interpretation… it is ALL spelled out before the deal for one and all to read! As of this thread I am also up-dating and improving my member protection policies for the mutual benefit of ALL parties involved! Win! Win! Win! Clear as Day-Light understanding! My question is WHY should I have to??? Can’t people just do the right thing? Interesting question eh’? Deano (not perfect, but trying) in Reno <><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Just to be clear, I have little to no problem with licensing a product, when it is appropriate to do so. I was just disappointed about WHEN I found out it was licensed.
- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
I agree that it does depend on the terms of purchase on each item. Of course Dean, you know I was just playing Devil's advocate.
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
I agree... I thougt it was a GREAT question. Honestly, I never thought of that "Garage Sale" question either! Good stuff!
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I just contacted my lawyers Dewey, Cheatem, & How and according to them this whole thread is a joke. No re-sale would never stand up in the court of law. Hey Deano how about an estate sale, or a magic auction.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
Woah, Al, where'd you come from? LOL Sorry for hijacking the thread. Haven't seen ya in a while.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Mr. Nuvo
I was laughing so hard I just had to chime in. Donald Does this clown plan to visit you from time to time to inventory your library too?
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-09-03 19:36, Al Angello wrote: Hey, how did you know it was a clown, and not a magician? Hehehe! Just kidding. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
This does not sound like a sale to me It's more like a rental.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
How about "Doing What's Right" regardless of it's legal enforceability? Is doing the RIGHT THING “out of style” or is it just something you like to appose? No one is gunna take you to court for stealing a $1.00 pen from your company, but is it still sealing?
Extreme example in comparison to the “Licensed” products? Maybe, but the int is the same… at what point is it somehow OK to do the WRONG and/or Illegal thing? (Even if you can “get-away” with it?) Things that make ya’ go Hmmmmmmmmm…. I am at your service and in HIS Service, Deano (asking a simple question) in Reno <>< ...oh, and Al, again, as stated several times, it clearly depends on the binding agreements made with the original buyer. (and YES it is and has-been enforced in a court of law… that is why they call it an “agreement”) How is this that difficult to understand, this "Doing The Right Thing" question? But you knew that since you are not asking to get an honest answer, but rather to stir the pot. You may wish to re-think that.
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
This is nothing more than an idle threat that you are taking far too seriously, but thanks for the laughs guys.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
I have NO idea what you just said? What do you mean "idol threat"? Who is doing such a thing? What threat? Where?
And all I am doing is ASKING some pretty basic questions... how is that taking things too seriously unless "Doing the Right Thing" is not important to you. Who knows... Deano (confused) in Reno <><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
If you don't want to agree to the terms of the sale, or the license agreement, then don't purchase the product in the first place. How easy is that?
If the conditions are in the open, and you ignore them, then it is you in the wrong, and not the author attempting to enforce them. If you buy a software, and don't agree to the terms of the license, you don't click "I agree". You return it for an immediate refund, without using it. Those who bend the rules after clicking "I agree", are going against their own word and promise. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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tacrowl Inner circle Maryland 1633 Posts |
Dean,
Donald's original problem with this was regarding when he found out the item could not be re-sold. If he did not find out until after the fact, it was never part of the original agreement and therefore he could not be accused of not honoring the agreement. Doing the right thing? How about for the client/customer? This same topic was brought up on the Café regarding Steve Axtell's puppets and additional media rights fees. The topic was covered on the web site according to Axtell, however many of his clients did not realize the media rights had to be purchased separately until after the purchase. As a result of the discussion, Steve actually changed his policy to provide non-exclusive media rights to his stock line of puppets. That is caring about your customers. When one client voices a concern over a policy, you can bet there are others out there who feel the same. |
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
I'll throw a monkey wrench into this thing. What about letting another magician borrow your magic marketing course. Is that ethically wrong? I wouldn't think so as you never copied it.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I just called back my lawyers Dewey, Cheatem, & How again and they told me that post sale conditions do not apply, or just use common sense.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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