I wasn't sure where to put this but this does have to do with purchasing magic effects. I have been a Café member for a few years but only recently became active. I often see people saying that a magic effect is bad and going to their dealers to get a refund. Now I thought the rule in magic was that there were never any refunds at all. that's what I always thought and was told and taught when I worked in a magic shop. I remember one time when I was about 16 I bought a prop from the magic shop that instantly broke it was terribly made. MY dad drove me 45 minutes back to the shop and the owner wouldn't return it I decided to buy something else. My dad was a lawyer (not a shark lawyer he actually couldn't stand lawyers and wanted time with the family instead of 16 hour days and took a job for the state of CT prosecuting deadbeat dads who didn't pay child support for a lot less money than a lawyer normally makes) and told him that in the State of Connecticut (not sure about other states) if somebody wants to return a product the retailer has to by law within 30 days. The guy at the shop still refused. We basically just let it go because it was only about $30 (but at 16 when you don't have a job $30 can be a lot)

Anyways is this a new thing meaning magic retailers processing returns? How does this work?

Thanks,

Chris

It doesn't. With magic you are buying a secret not just a prop. Once you know the secret you can't give it (the secret) back. I know of no magic shop that will refund your money for a trick just because you don't like it. They may however swap a defective item for a working version of the same item, but it very rare.

Back when when we actually had a magic shop, there was a large sign at the register that read "ALL SALES FINAL!"

But what if you buy an effect after reading an add and the claims made in the add aren't true ? That's somtehing you read a lot here in the café.

Frans

That is why you wait for reviews. This all sales final always irked me.

And that right there is the major benefit of establishing a relationship with a brick and mortar store when at all possible. I happen to have a very close relationship with one such location and they know that I don't just buy stuff because I'm curious. Because of this, I have returned items that weren't as advertised and they gladly gave me my money back. They have done it for other LOYAL customers as well. Internet shops are convenient and they can afford to be cheaper because they don't have the overhead, but you can't go hang out there on a Saturday afternoon and session with your buddies either. Everything has a price and I would rather pay a few more dollars and support my local shops. In the long run, it's cheaper.

I can only speak for UK consumer law - but over here that is legally not true.

If you buy something that is poor quality or not fit for the purpose advertised you are entitled to a full refund. That is a legal right that is fully enforsable by law. If the supplier refuses you can either report them to Trading Standards or persue it through the small claims court, in which case the supplier will end up having to pay both your refund and your legal costs.

Under Distance Selling laws, if you buy something via phone, mail or Internet (or any other method where the goods are not handed over face to face) - you have the legal right to change your mind and return it within 7 days for a full refund. Again this is fully enforcable by lay - the supplier could be prosecuted and fined if they refuse to refund your money.

I think we need to move away from this silly idea that when you buy magic you are paying for the secret. As a professional magician, 90% of the time I already know the secret before I buy. What I'm paying for is the physical props and/or the right to perform it.

Hi

Caliban is correct as far as UK law goes, only it is now 14 days for returning an item under the new DSR brought in by some EU law in the last month or so.

Simon

I have returned a few things over the years and usually had no problems. I agree that a good, honest relationship with your dealer makes all the difference. It only takes one problem, in many cases to run off a customer

Viking/George Robinson is very honorable about accepting prompt returns for Viking Products purchsed directly from his company (NOT through a dealer).

Julie

Legal issues aside, I've had excellent service from Hocus Pocus, when something is not right. I'm not talking about simply not liking something I've bought, but on a few occasions, when the item either hasn't functioned correctly or was in poor condition, Paul & his people have been excellent to deal with.

I agree. I will even go as far to say that dealing with the likes of reputable dealers, they usually always tell me if its for me or not. When they get to know you, they are more comfortable talking shop with you and yes they are very fair in their business affairs.

Stan said it best. After years of getting burned I really only buy stuff from a few people I trust to do buisness theses days. There are a few really great guys to do buisness with like Rick from Outlaw, Peter from Alakazam, and Paul fom Hocus Pocus.

One item that sticks out off the top of my ead was Model Bottle (Which I was about to buy and found the post)

I always thought with magic that sales were 100% final no ifs ands are buts. I found returns kind of suprising as I have never heard of it.

I do see what you mean now as not advertised. It seems that a lot of advertisements leave out a few things.

For Example (This is made up but an example)

You look your friends in the eyes and all of a sudden without any strings or magnets or mirrors you float up off the ground 2 feet! and are clean! This is the closest to flying you can actually get!

In reality you are using a mirror (we said mirrorS nor mirror) and are three inches off the ground and then at the end you tell the spectator you were two feet due to patter

I worked in a magic shop for 11 years. It was posted that we accepted no returns except on defective merchandise (and then normally we would exchange it for a working one). However, this policy was not always strictly adhered to. It works in your favor to get to know the people who run the shop. If we had a regular bring something back which they said didn't work for their purposes or wasn't quite their style, as long as it was still in new condition, we would give them a refund. We knew they would usually reinvest this money the same day, or soon after, in a different effect and we would keep a loyal customer happy. However there were times you would have to stick to your guns as you find people who would want to return things constantly or just wanted to know the secret and then tried returning it or didn't want to have to practice it even with the simplest of effects (we had someone claim Svengali was too difficult even after a 10 minute lesson on it). After being refused some would even come back later with it broken and claim it was defective. It was often broken in a way that a simple manufacturer defect wouldn't cause, i.e. they broke it. We also would have people try to return things that they then found used on the internet cheaper or often with DVDs downloaded for free and they would actually tell us this was why they wanted to return it. So when shops are constantly bombarded with these types of people who only want to know how it works I can see why this return policy evolved.

Now that our shop has now gone the way of many other brick and mortars, I have found online stores that have great customer service policies. One was already mentioned, Hocus Pocus and the others in my experience are Magic Depot and Stevens Magic. Not to say others don't, I just haven't had to return anything to other ones yet. All the fore mentioned stores have returned things for me that either didn't work smoothly (and MD even tested out other ones of the effect to try to find one that worked satisfactorily but said they couldn't find one so issued a refund) or things that I thought would work with the effect I was trying to accomplish but didn't do what I needed. So don't think all magic shops are like the experiences you've had. There are ones out there that realize customer service is more important than trying to move a bad effect at the customers expense.

The "you buy the secret" excuse is such BS.
Dealers know the purchase is for both the apparatus and the secret. If the apparatus is junk and falls apart the inmplied warranty in most states protects you.
They can refuse the return/refund but the customer always has a course of action if they are willing to take it to the end.
Like many others I deal with Hocus Pocus and they have by far the best customer service around. They have earned my business and get it for items they carry, on a rare occation they don't carry something I'm looking for I use someone else, but I'm very selective.

Yes, but not every magic trick has apparatus. Some, it is just the "secret." and you very well can't return that!

A magic store sells an item (say $50) and you buy two of them. Do they sell the second one for half price 'cause you already bought the secret with the first one? Somehow I doubt it.

I've had people just looking for the secret try the purchase and return "trick". I tell them I will give them half their money back. Normally they just keep it at that point.

We always exchange defective items and if I don't think a customer is at the skill point of an effect, I will point them in a different direction. We also run through most everything they purchase with tips that will help them learn.

You are the last of a dying breed

I have never known a magic shop not to exchange a broken item for a working one. However, there IS value in the information purchased. So, there should be nothing wrong with refusing returns (not exchanges) assuming the customer is aware of this policy in advance.

Brad Henderson