I agree with those in this thread that believe a signature is better than a serial number or torn corner for identification. There's just no doubt about it.

For you...

One would have to see EVERY version of the effect every performed to make that statement definitively and be correct.

I challenge anyone to come to one of my shows and watch me do my version and tell me honestly that the audience reaction is in even the slightest bit weaker than the signature versions mentioned in this topic.

Magicians get caught up in magician thinking patterns. Think about a homicide scene. A weapon is found on the scene, having been left behind by the killer. The weapon has the killer's fingerprints on it, but his name is not engraved or signed on it. Is anyone any less convinced? The serial number of a bill is its "fingerprint". Everyone knows that no two bills have the same serial number. No signature is needed, unless the magician draws attention to the fact that a signature must be used to verify that its the same bill. A laymen understands that if the serial number is the same, then it has to be the same bill.

Now I agree that many serial number versions are weak. In some the performer reads off a different number than is on the bill, or he never lets anyone else see the bill, or he does a switch upon removing the bill, etc. But in ym routine, the borrowed bill never leaves the audience's sight. I never go to my pockets. Both hands are in view the whole time. A spectator reads the number off the bill. Another writes that number down on a white board for all to see. Other spec read the number off the bill while everyone else verifies it from the board. The lender sets it on fire, in full view, without envelopes, reading off the number AS IT BURNS. The lender cuts open the lemon--I never touch the lemon. The lender removes the bill from the lemon, unrolls it, and reads off the serial number--the same one on the white board. He keeps that same bill, as it is not gimmicked or altered in any way.

Nope, sorry--I don't buy that because another version has a signature, it MUST be stronger. Because with a signature, you can't actually burn the bill. You must touch the lemon at some point, or you have to cut into it. A signed bill cannot meet the conditions that my routine can meet: The fact that my hands are seen empty at all times, the spec, openly burns the bill, the spec cuts open the lemon, which was given out in a case before the show started, I never touch nor even come near the lemon, etc. So, for ME, I switched from doing a well-known (and fairly expensive) signed bill version to my own current routine. And it plays STRONGER, because it is cleaner and seems more impossible.

Scott,

The signed bill is stronger than all most every other method out there. Yours is the one exception in my opinion. When magicians think of serial number methods they think of the lames ones that you mentioned but they have no idea what your routine is really all about. Its a shame more magicians aren't more familiar with your routine, ITS ONLY TEN DOLLARS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!

However for me the choice is a signed bill because its easier to verify with out having to carry extra props (large white board or what have you). Bu Scott is right, his routine is cleaner and more impossible, and in his hands is clearly stronger than any signed bill in lemon.

I prefer the signature but I would never go to such great lengths - like others in this thread - to convince anyone to do so. Go with what you like, to each his own.

OK, point taken--I'll shut up. Sorry if I've upset anyone.

You guys wanna see a KILLER bill to lemon?

Check out Kozmo's version. You can see it at his lectures, or on his Tales from the Street DVD.

Its so well layered into the ENTIRE routine.

Thanks Mac, I appreciate that, sir.

And mmread is right--Koz's routine rocks--I had the great pleasure of seeing it in person when he lectured in Boise a couple of weeks ago.

I noticed when I saw Koz's routine that while the handling is different the load is IDENTICAL to Rudy Hunter's. I'm not pointing fingers or anything simply stating my observations, it could simply be a case of independent creation.

Scott Guinn's routine tops them all. Why would you wanna sign a bill anyways. People always hesitate signing and then it becomes awkward. You have to make them think it's ok. The way Scotts routine is structured, IMO it's the most convincing routine of it's type to date. I cant wait to try this out. Besides, the way it's structured, you don't have much technical work to do at all.. can't say that with a signed version. You must do some kind of crazy sleight of hand and most of the time you have to cut open the lemon yourself. That's not the case with this routine. The spectator has the lemon to start with and then at the end cuts it open himself and verifies the serial numbers. Come on, it doesn't get any stronger than that. Try that with a signed bill.

Thanks Bobby! Much appreciated. I'm glad you like the routine. Let me know how it plays in your shows.

Most of the torn corner and serial number gambits out there will fall flat compared to a signed bill, but most DOES NOT MEAN EVERY! The problem with the guys arguing in favor of the statement that the bill MUST be signed is that they are COMPLETELY ignorant of Scott Guinn's handling.

Mind you this is coming from a guy who prefers using a signed bill, albeit for reasons which have nothing to do with it's impact on the layman, but I still say Scott Guinn's routine is cleaner and more impossible than any routine out there and it still destroys a lay audience.

Anybody who wants to add a Bill in Lemon routine to their repertoire should do themselves and the art a favor by researching every routine already in print not just to find the best method but to create an original and baffling routine and In my opinion Scott's is one of the strongest handlings in this plot line you will ever find. For a lousy ten dollars even if you don't use his method there will be something in Scott's routine that you WILL learn from.

The bill is not lost in an envelope, it is cleanly and openly burned in a pan. A spectator can read the serial number off the bill as it is engulfed by flames, a lemon is introduced which the performer has NEVER touched it is cut open and a bill is removed which matches perfectly to the bill the spectator saw burn to a crisp right before his eyes, clean fair and absolutely impossible. There are very few torn corn or serial number routines out there worth doing, Scott's is the exception.

Thanks again, Mac--very kind of you.

Permit me to add a vote FOR Scott's routine and concept. While a signed bill may provide a bit more intrigue, it is really just overproving when compared to the ultra-clean routine possibilities Scott offers. He has solved a major issue with the routine, which leaves the specs at "Whit's End" - on the horns of a dilemma...

Jim

Thanks Jim! That's exactly what my goal was with my routine.

Scott I bought your method and it's clever. Unfortunatly it seem to be a little difficult to do with euros.... I will probably have to change it....

IF you like the bill in lemon, Nourdine ( a french restaurant magician!) sell a good way to do it!! it's call CITRUS, this is a sign bill to lemon, where the laymen cut and take the bill from the lemon!!

The lemon could seat on the table during the show!! There is no change of the bill. It's very easy to do.

Hi dedikc,

Where is this version available ? I can't find it anywhere.

Thanks.

Oliver.

You can find it here:
http://www.nourdine-le-magicien.com/La_M......ets.html

or mail Nourdine :
nourdine-le-magicien@wanadoo.fr

Voila!

Although I prefer the signed bill to any of the other identification methods, I must mention that Harry Anderson and Billy McComb did not use signatures.

On a cruise I personally saw McComb do a signed bill to wallet. It was more or less the Seabrook bank night effect.