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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Polly wants a cracker... » » Balloon to dove question? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jeff Jenson
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Denver, Colorado
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First of all I'm planing on using a balloon to dove tray in my show and I was just wanted to know about how long can a dove sit in the prop before production? I have no assistance, I am a one man show. Also does the color of the balloon really matter?

Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff Jenson
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magicom
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Jeff,
I don't know the maximum time, but I have left mine loaded for approximately 15 minutes with no ill effect. I prefer using black balloons. I think that this at least leaves the possibility (in the minds of the spectators) that the dove could have somehow been inside the balloon. I think that if you use a clear or translucent balloon, you eliminate this possibility.

Marcus
Dave Scribner
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Lake Hopatcong, NJ
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Jeff, I don't think the color of the balloon is really important. If you use colored doves, you may want to use a balloon the color of the dove which could mean a white balloon to white dove.

The subject of load time has been discussed many times. In my opinion, a dove should not be loaded for any longer than 15 minutes. In a prop, there isn't much air to start with and after 15 minutes, I believe you are pushing the bubble.
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Bob Sanders
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Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
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I agree with the others that 15 minutes is asking enough of a dove in a load chamber. Air is not the problem in my props. There are plenty of large air holes in the bottom of the load chambers that are never covered.

My doves are not dyed. However, the color of the balloon is determined by the sponsor, event, season, etc. Color is not the "cover" problem because the audience watches me inflate the balloon. (The first one even "escapes" by flying away.) Frankly, I think clear balloons are usually a poor choice for stage work. They don't usually add anything but lack of color. The contrast is part of the act!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- I have even used printed balloons furnished by my sponsor.
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

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Jeff Jenson
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Denver, Colorado
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Thank you for your input, I asked about the color of the balloon because every time I see the balloon to dove it's always a white balloon to dove and I thought it was to cliche. Also I was planning on no more that 15 min. for the dove due to the lack of confinement.

Thanks,
Jeff
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Dynamike
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Eternal Order
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It is very quick and easy to load the dove last minute with Balloon To Dove. If you pick up the tray from behind the curtain, she can be easily loaded there.
magicmarkdaniel
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Bolton, England UK
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Sorry to go a little off-topic, but would a child's shoe fit in the l**d c*****r? I'm thinking of using this with my Wizcote to reproduce the shoe. Also how quick can you load it (with practise of course).

Thanks

Mark
Mark Daniel
Dave Scribner
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Lake Hopatcong, NJ
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Mark, yes a small shoe will fit however, when it is produced, it will most likely not sit on the tray. The springing action will cause it to bounce around and it might look awkward.

I don't want to expose the operation here so I sent you a PM
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Brent McLeod
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New Zealand
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For many years in cabarets and clubs where I performed, the longest I ever loaded a dove for production was less than 10 minutes, 5 -7 minutes for bodyloads or less, mainly because these are your opening effects! Also have lots of extra air holes in all your props and practice a lot from a young age with the birds starting out just for a minute or so getting into the apparatus. Then increase over time. These are the birds that will work well with you on different venues through training and familiarity.

Cheers
Jethro Magic
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When I used to perform my Balloon to dove tray, I didn't leave the bird inside more than 5 minutes, because the prop is really enclosed. Try to load and produce in as little time as possible.
revmike
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Birdsboro, PA
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I have seen a variety of props and different spaces even in the various trays. I agree that 15 minutes for many of the props is the absolute max. When I am using my Dove Tray or my Fire Cage, I will not normally go over 5-6 minutes.
The magic is not in our sleights and illusions, but instead in our ability to bring love and joy.
itsmagic
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middle earth
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I use any color balloon, even needle thru balloon balloon. As for preloading time, best to keep it to minimum - less than 7 min. If the weather is extremely hot, I'll load dove during the effect behind my Lefler table.
papillon
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There are two main kind of balloons, "clear" (see trough) and fashion, (not see through). Take the last one to be sure to not reveal anything.
revmike
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Birdsboro, PA
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Not all the time, but sometimes I combine my balloon to dove with a comedy silk effect where the silk changes color, changes shape, etc. Eventually silk vanishes, we say magic words, nothing happens, do it again, nothing happens, finally I have the kids yell and they think the silk will come back, the balloon bursts and the dove appears with the silk.
The magic is not in our sleights and illusions, but instead in our ability to bring love and joy.
Gordon
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Chicago
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Balloon to Dove is scary trick to me. I've heard too many tales of magicians producing a dead bird as a result of the way it works, and perhaps the load chamber. If you can use a gentler trick, I'd encourage you to consider it.
CMMAGIC
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Myrtle Beach , S.C.
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No more than 5-6 minutes. It's not the air but the cramped stress that can cause your birds to have a panic attack and die. Doves are very docile creatures. I own 6 doves, 2 parakeets, and a cockatiel.
- Carl Michael - www.CarlMichaelMagic.com
Frequent performer at top night clubs such as Mansion Miami , PURE Las Vegas , Marquee Vegas , and Veranda NYC . 2012 and 2013 Reader's Choice Magician of the Year. Currently headlining in my own stage show in Myrtle Beach . Follow on twitter , Instagram and ViNe @CMMAGIC
Dave Scribner
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CMMagic, if your dove is so large that it is cramped in a balloon to dove tray then the prop shouldn't be used. There is plenty of room in the load chamber. The bottom of the tray is cloth an allows a small amount of air to penetrate but not much. Saying that 5 minutes is the most is a little exxagerated. Most agree that 15 minutes would be the max. Fifteen minutes is pretty much the standard max time for most dove props and body loads.
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CMMAGIC
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Myrtle Beach , S.C.
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I disagree Dave. Are you a Dove? Then how can you put a time on it. A cramped enviroment leads to stress of a dove. There are more than 1 occasion where the dove comes out dead not due to air; but a panic attack. I work with Diane LaVell who is the Nation's leading Dove Expert, with her books and her research! 5 -6 minutes, would you like to sit in a sub trunk for 15 minutes Dave? That's about what it would feel like!
- Carl Michael - www.CarlMichaelMagic.com
Frequent performer at top night clubs such as Mansion Miami , PURE Las Vegas , Marquee Vegas , and Veranda NYC . 2012 and 2013 Reader's Choice Magician of the Year. Currently headlining in my own stage show in Myrtle Beach . Follow on twitter , Instagram and ViNe @CMMAGIC
Dave Scribner
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You're entitled to disagree with me and no, I'm obviously not a dove but I do have many years of dove magic experience. I can put a time frame on it from that experience and also from watching, listening and talking to many professional dove workers over the years. We're talking about a dove tray. The load chamber is 12" long 5" wide and 4" deep in most of them. That is plenty of room for one dove. A dove is cramped much more in a standard dove harness. There is no reason for the dove to become panicky if you have been working with it as you should. It will actually settle down and relax in the chamber. In the dark, doves tend to go to sleep. If you use a bird that hasn't been trained properly and it just jammed into the chamber, then yes, it will get panicky. The dove should be "set" not "put" in the chamber. There is a difference.

If you read my post, it says a maximum of 15 minutes. Temperature has a lot to do with the time as well. If you are working in an extremely hot setting, like outside in sun with little air circulation, then the time frame should naturally be reduced. In an non airconditioned room on a stage for example, the time frame should be less. In normal setting, 15 minutes would be the max. Most dove acts aren't that long anyway but if you plan on doing an act and using the dove tray (or any dove prop) for that matter later in the show, then it shouldn't be loaded at the beginning. Arrangements should be made to load off stage closer to when you intend to do the effect.

I'll take your word about Diane Lavell being a dove expert. I have never heard of her and can't find anything about her on the internet but being an "expert" doesn't necessarily mean she knows about magic props. PETA representatives believe they know everything about animals and we all know about them.

In short, the original question was "how long can a bird sit in a prop." The answer, as provided by several members here is "a maximum of 15 minutes"
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bry1513
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I am a dove. I am very comfy for up to fifteen minutes in a balloon to dove tray. Thanks guys.

The Dove
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