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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Don Alan Chop Cup Routine (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Keith Mitchell
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I have been trying out the Don Alan chop cup routine and there is one step that requires the spectator to put the ball into the cup.

What concerns me is, would it become obvious to the spectator about the ball that is being put into the cup and how it reacts once it touches the bottom of the cup? Should I hold the cup away from their ability to see the inside of the cup? Should I have the spectator drop the ball or slowly place the ball into the cup?

This one step in the routine is confusing me, not sure if it would become obvious to the spectator once that ball hits bottom of the cup. I am still practicing this routine and need more time before I go out and perform it. Therefore, I need advice about this one step.

Thanks
Madkiki
Pete Biro
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Either don't do it, or angle the cup so they can't see in. It isn't REQUIRED that you do what Don did.
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Bill Palmer
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I saw Don do this routine a number of times. He worked fairly quickly. Also, he didn't linger too long when the spectator dropped the ball into the cup.

Don't act nervous when you do this. If you do, they will look at the inside of the cup very critically. If you are relaxed, they will basically ignore it.

I have a theory that is probably wrong, but it's based upon years of performing. If you worry about something, the spectators can sense it. You send out "nervous vibes" that tell the spectator you are doing something sneaky. They will find it every time.

And they'll GETCHA!
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Keith Mitchell
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Thanks Pete and Bill for your advice, I truely appreciate the help.
mysto59
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I have the Aluminum Don Alan Stubby Chop Cup and I use the 1 1/4" Don Alan Chop balls from RnT II. I have had several people put the ball all the way into the cup until it touches the bottom and never "suspect" anything. I have the ball adjusted to just the right "certain something" to where I can't even tell that there is anything "funny" going on. Works perfect every time.
It's not the size of the wand that matters, it's the "magic" in it...
Bill Palmer
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When I let the spectator handle the ball, I tell them to drop the ball into the cup, rather than to put the ball into the cup.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
mysto59
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I do tell them to drop the ball into the cup and most do but I've had some who reach in and put the ball in the cup. I know that's not the best thing to be happening but so far no one has suspected anything "fishy". I do "get right to it" as soon as the ball is in the cup though.

The first few times I performed it for someone I had those "nervous vibes". Mostly during the final load sequence. Now, after getting a few performances under my belt I feel MUCH more confident. I practiced LOT before I showed it to anyone but I found out there's nothing like doing it for a "live" audience. So far my journey with the chop cup seems to be going pretty well.

I'm "all ears" to any advice from the more experienced folks here.
It's not the size of the wand that matters, it's the "magic" in it...
Bill Palmer
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One thing that prevents the reaching into the cup when I'm working in most venues is that I use a cup that is relatively deep.

The chop cup will help you develop confidence and misdirection.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
jordanl
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Quote:
On 2008-10-20 19:51, Bill Palmer wrote:

I have a theory that is probably wrong, but it's based upon years of performing. If you worry about something, the spectators can sense it. You send out "nervous vibes" that tell the spectator you are doing something sneaky. They will find it every time.

And they'll GETCHA!


Bill,

While I cannot match your years of experience, I think you're absolutely correct here. I find that a number of moves rely far more upon the confidence of the performer than the mechanics. When I'm confident that they don't know about the hidden extra object they never notice it. When I'm nervous, spectators will catch me every time.
Billgussen
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Quote:
On 2008-10-20 19:51, Bill Palmer wrote:
I have a theory that is probably wrong, but it's based upon years of performing. If you worry about something, the spectators can sense it. You send out "nervous vibes" that tell the spectator you are doing something sneaky. They will find it every time.

And they'll GETCHA!


There is a theory in acting that says if you want to convey to the audience some subtle nuance of emotion, then think it while performing -- the audience will usually catch on. This is sort of the same thing. You're merely thinking of being caught, and the audience catches you. I'll bet some clever magician could make a magic effect out of that.

Bill
Bill Palmer
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Let me explain how I learned this. It was in my early days of rediscovering magic. I played several instruments in a local band, and I liked to do magic for the customers during the breaks. One of my favorite routines was one that involved a penny that was the size of a silver dollar, a silver dollar and a normal penny.

I used to get busted by some of the customers who would look at the date on the regular penny, and then would notice that the date on the large penny was different. So I went to the local coin shop and bought a roll of 1965 pennies. I kept a couple of them in my pocket for use with the large penny.

Naturally, I no longer worried about the date on the coins. After a few months, I lost the last penny of that roll.

I started to panic.

Then it dawned on me that I had not been caught out for almost as long as I had been using the 1965 pennies. I didn't need them any more. That was in 1973. I haven't been "busted" since!
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Lawrence O
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Bill,
You're an authority on the chop cup. What advice comes to your mind that you could give that is not in the Greater Magic Video Series on Don Alan.
Let's say one on the routine itself and one on the load(s)
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Bill Palmer
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Lawrence:

I don't really consider myself an authority on the chop cup.

However, I would say that the best advice I could give on the routine would be to keep it simple and keep it moving. Pause at the appropriate spots to let people applaud.

On the loads -- it depends on how you are working. I always work standing. When I work Medieval, I load from a gibeciere. I don't take the cup down below the table line like some performers do. I found a better way. It's a matter of coordinated stealing and loading, as well as a matter of having your table set correctly for your height and the location of your pouch or pouches.

When strolling, I use a smaller cup and I use ball holders that are located in a convenient place.

I wrote some of this up in the secret sessions in rather great detail.

Here it is:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=37
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Michael Bilkis
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Lawrence,
I have performed my versions of Don Alan's routine for 20 years. If you study his routine then you will learn that each phase is presented in a different manner. Yes the ball returns to the cup, but the patter is very different for each phase. This, IMHO, keepsit interesting.

Michael
Pete Biro
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My favorite routine was Ron Wilson's popularized and published by Larry Jennings. If I was doing it for big rooms, I'd do the Ken Brooke (Paul Daniels) routine, but not in Paul's style.

However, of late, I have abandoned the chop cup for the Johnny Thompson/Roy Benson bowl routine. Using a large metal NUT (with Don Alan's blessing) for a final load. I use s rubber toilet plunger for the bowl. (It's a funny prope and doesn't talk when loading the big nut.) I often do this with all borrowed items in a restaurant of someone's home.
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Lawrence O
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Quote:
On 2008-11-03 12:58, Pete Biro wrote:
... of late, I have abandoned the chop cup for the Johnny Thompson/Roy Benson bowl routine. Using a large metal NUT (with Don Alan's blessing) for a final load. I use s rubber toilet plunger for the bowl. (It's a funny prope and doesn't talk when loading the big nut.) I often do this with all borrowed items in a restaurant of someone's home.


Hi Pete,
There is a Hungarian magician (sorry I forgot the name) with an extremely good unknown move for the Benson Bowl. It was in the second VHS titled Magic From Hungaria. It was presented as a sponge ball routine (not a very original one though) which was involving a bowl sequence. If you can get it, it's really worth the trouble.

By the way I think that your "bowl" is a really original and smart pick.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Magicbarry
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Others who are far more qualified than I am have already commented ... I'll just tell you the way I think about this particular moment in the routine.

I never worry about what the spectator thinks when the ball hits the bottom of the cup, because the spectator's mind isn't on the bottom of the cup. Their thoughts are this:

"Hmm, does he really put the ball in the cup? Oh, wait, he's going to let me put it in. Yep, I dropped it in. Now, how is he going to get it out again?"

Never is a spectator thinking a question I can only post in secret sessions. If they ever do think that question, it takes a while, and they probably only come up with that question right before a lemon or a tennis ball or a sponge ball or another large load suddenly appears under the cup.

As far as the spectator is concerned, when the ball goes in the cup, the magic hasn't happened yet. They're wondering what happens when the cup is turned upside down -- it hasn't occurred to them that there's anything to look for now. They've put the ball in, and they know it's there. Now they're waiting for you to turn it upside down -- that's their next point of interest.

To facilitate this, you as the performer are talking and acting as if nothing has happened yet. You're talking through the dropping of the ball into the cup, you're calm, and you're words and approach are helping them to think of the moment of magic as something that's coming, not something that has just occurred.
Bill Palmer
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I did the chop cup routine for Jose Feliciano once. He was doing a series of shows in Houston, and I was strolling in the restaurant. I used a Don Alan Chop Cup at the time.

So I walked up to his table, introduced myself, told him that I was a fan and that I had enjoyed his version of the Flight of the Bumblebee. Then I asked if he would like for me to perform some magic for him.

He said, "Most people won't do magic for me, because they think that because I'm blind, I can't enjoy magic."

He was with his wife. So I said, "I'll sit here and perform, and she can translate." He laughed.

I handed him the cup. Don't ever give your props to a blind guy. He noticed that the bottom was rather thick. But that's all he remarked about.

He enjoyed the routine, and I enjoyed performing for him.

After that, we talked about guitars!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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