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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts 
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On 2010-09-13 19:47, balducci wrote: Interesting considering he and Leguarta (?sp) have certain parts of their roles reversed in the first season compared to the book.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts
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On 2008-10-28 17:08, Jordini wrote: Horrible show. Maybe one of the worst ever. Its bad enough we have a hit show that glorifies theft, raqueteering, and murder by an organized crime syndicate, now we have won that would have us empathize with a serial murderer. They'll have to do a lot better than that. Quite repugnant. |
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts
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I must admit the concept never attracted me... he's a psychopathic killer, but he kills killers, so its okay...
Dangerous vigilante sort of thinking.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts
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On 2010-09-14 00:12, Cyberqat wrote: Its not okay. Dangerous indeed. But nobody can accuse today's viewer of being discerning, hence Springer, Oprah, Maury, etc. |
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts
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To quote Jerry Springer about his own show...
"Everybody loves a freak show."
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts
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On 2010-09-14 00:30, Cyberqat wrote: Sounds like something he would say, although he's totally incorrect. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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I wouldn't say greatest show ever, but it's definitely my favorite current show. As for the glorification of negative things, that's not particularly high on my list of criteria. Art does not exist as a vehicle to promote morality, and IMO to construe it in those terms is overly narrow criticism.
Fortunately, the glorification of violence, revenge, and of course suicide is not generally construed as the be-all, end-all of artistic criticism; at least I, personally, am glad that Shakespeare survived long enough for my reading. Moreover, good and evil goals are often in conflict. Certainly, "justice" is often poorly served by the legal system.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts
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A narrow criticism, perhaps, but were talking about serial murder here. Not a whole lot of analysis needed, nor a hot debate about morality on television or the legal system- no, I'm gonna switch things up on the not very magical front and quell the psychobabble. This is a show which counts on its popularity by hopefully getting the home viewer to "like" a murderer. Not on my watch. Or better yet since I'm dumbing it down, "aint gonna happen champ". Come up with something different. Its not provocative, its unintelligent, and insulting. I repeat, quite repugnant and beneath the informed viewer.
Rodney |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On 2010-09-14 01:00, magicfish wrote: No psychobabble involved; IMO the "informed" viewer realizes that artistic quality is entirely distinct from moral content. I like a good western as much as the next guy, but "We root for the good guys in the white hats and against the bad guys in the black hats" is not the only blueprint for TV shows and films.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts
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I hear your point, Lobo, although I wouldn't compare an outlaw dressed in black who rides into town and breaks the rules of the "shootout" with a person who's life compulsion is to secretly claim superiority and then engage in the same act he denounces by torturing and carving and humans. The criticism may be narrow, but unfortunately for the creators, its all that is required to discard this drivel.
Rod |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On 2010-09-14 01:38, magicfish wrote: Don't worry about the creators; no doubt they were aware that the concept would alienate a portion of the potential viewing audience, and they show is doing very well regardless. I'm curious as to your take on, say, Romeo and Juliet, which glorifies teen suicide more than all the Tipper Gores in the world ever thought Ozzy Osbourne or Judas Priest did.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts
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"Shakespeare was a hack" - Howard Stern.
IMO there is no glorification of suicide whatsoever in this play, which is the greatest tragedy ever written. |
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts
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And I'm not worried about the creators. It is unfortunate for them that their creation can be so easily and accurately discarded by a narrow criticism. It is a narrow plot. Tell me, would Dexter be such a hit if he were not killing killers? No. The ppopularity of the show depends solely on the home viewer not despising Dexter because his victims are killers themselves, and somehow Dexters actions are justified. Yawn. Like I said, they'll have to do better than that. The premise is juvenile at best.
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts
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On 2010-09-14 00:36, magicfish wrote: That his show is a freak show? or that everybody loves one? I think hes right on the first and wrong on the second. Which is why I've never watched more then 10 min of his show.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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It's interesting that the most vocal critics of art are generally the ones who haven't watched it.
In point of fact, Dexter does not just "kill killers." He looks for those who are a continuing threat to the 'innocent.' Habitual killers. In this way he comforts himself that he is protecting society in accordance with his code, which was taught to him by his frustrated cop foster daddy. Dexter acknowledges that he is a monster. His own self loathing is also something we can all relate to having experienced at one time or another. Dexter is all too aware of the similarities between himself and those he kills. The subject is explored often in the show. Dexter is always looking for cracks in the mirror to attempt to reassure himself that he isn't the same as them, usually to no avail. It's these complex issues that make the show interesting and mentally engaging. On the one hand, Dexter is a sick and twisted killer, but on the other, he's great with kids...
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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I just learned that a new novel has been released: "Dexter Is Delicious".
http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/displ......85532358
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On 2010-09-14 09:31, magicfish wrote: Man, I wish there were an online irony detector. I don't know whether you're kidding or not by quoting Howard Stern in a thread in which you're objecting to a media presentation on a moral basis, but either way, it's really funny. I like Romeo and Juliet, but it's not my favorite of his tragedies. I'm really stunned by the notion that you don't see any glorification of suicide whatsoever in it. I mean, stunned to the point where I almost think you're kidding, or just don't want to have to reject Shakespeare on Dexter-esque grounds. Having no reason to doubt your integrity, I'll take your position at face value, but I strongly disagree. I think the takeaway point for many teenage girls who watch it is, "True love is when you'd rather be dead than have to live without the person you love." (A common perception is that) It's mostly "tragic" because she wasn't actually dead. [irony]How romantic.[/irony]
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On 2010-09-14 09:43, magicfish wrote: Like...say....Hamlet?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts
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On 2010-09-14 11:45, critter wrote: I sincerely hope you're not referring to me. Number on, its not art. Number two, I most certainly have watched it, number three, I stated quite clearly that serial killers are his prey. Number four, it doesn't change a thing. In fact you've proven my point. You think it matters that he only kills really bad guys, and so he's not so bad after all. Weak. Like I said, they'll have to do better than that. Apparently not for the masses. They eat it up. Just ask springer. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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Then you've missed my point. He really is bad, targeting killers just makes him feel better about being bad.
You ever swat a fly? Step on an ant? I believe that all life is sacred, not just that of humans. You ever lie? That's just a minor thing, right? Ever pocket a candy bar? Lose your temper? Dexter is an extreme metaphor for something that we all have inside of us. The show isn't about the killing, it's about the dark side of human nature. The killing metaphor is a tool used by the artists to illustrate that exploration for the viewer. I also think the Springer metaphor is a pretty weak arguement. Are you seriously attempting to compare a complex character study with a toothless 12 year old in a tube top throwing a chair at her brother/daddy? It's cool if the show isn't to your taste, but it's hardly an indictment of society. The multitude of Dexters viewers are not going out with butcher knives in search of gangsta rappers to attack. Although, now that you mention it... What's wrong with vigalante justice? I mean, the state can execute people, right? Lethal injection, does Texas still have hangings? Dexter's burden of proof is at least as strict as that of the court system. So what makes a governor or a judge or a jury member or a warden any better than Dexter? All of those people have failed your moral litmus test. They "only kill bad guys so that makes it okay."
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Posted: Sep 14, 2010 01:26 am 
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